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Jeremy95GT

Sn95 to fox TB swap?

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Does anyone have a good write up on this? Or know ALL the parts involved? I think i wanna do this, i have heard from rio and a few other people that it really helps with how the car runs and overall just better than the stupid elbow... Any help would be appreciated...

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my next question, that spacer between the throttle body and the intake, wtf is that for? is it egr? if so then can I just get a delete spacer, being as my egr has been deleted through my tune?

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I think I have all the info I need to do this swap, I do have one last question, do I need to put that huge 2 in spacer between the tb and intake? Or can I use a smaller one like I seen on some sites, looks to be like half an inch if not less thick... Keep in mind I have no egr as its been deleted... Thanks

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I think I have all the info I need to do this swap, I do have one last question, do I need to put that huge 2 in spacer between the tb and intake? Or can I use a smaller one like I seen on some sites, looks to be like half an inch if not less thick... Keep in mind I have no egr as its been deleted... Thanks

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I'm gonna give it a bump cause I still need a definite answer about this tb spacer

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I'm gonna give it a bump cause I still need a definite answer about this tb spacer

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You need the spacer so that the throttle cable is the right length

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It depends on which intake you are using. With a stock GT intake you need the spacer. Some of the other intakes have the EGR mount built in. The stock Fox spacer has the plumbing for throttle body heat. It takes cooling water from the heater rail and cirulcates it around in the spacer to warm the intake charge and the returns the water to the back of the intake. Most people don't hook up the hoses for that.

Kurt

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This is seriously the first time ive ever seen swapping TB's to the fox. why would one want to do this? I feel like this is something i should have stumbled across before and never have lol

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This is seriously the first time ive ever seen swapping TB's to the fox. why would one want to do this? I feel like this is something i should have stumbled across before and never have lol

Probably because his car is a pushrod? It deletes the intake elbow giving the air a more direct route into the manifolds

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In addition to the better air flow, the fox TB setup is supposed to offer better throttle response also. One of the biggest benefits is access to a MUCH better selection of aftermarket throttle bodies, i.e. Accufab, etc. Accufab doesn't even make a throttle body for 94-95 anymore, I've heard they used to make one but dropped it because they couldn't get the performance gains they were after because of the elbow design of the intake after the TB. Also, if you would ever be looking to get a throttle body bigger than 75mm, you would be out of luck with the 94-95 setup. All the TB's larger than 75mm are the fox body style. Lastly, another benefit is the routing of the intake pipe (at least it was a benefit in my case). The stock 94-95 setup causes clearance problems with larger intakes like the Anderson and other CAI-style intakes, beause it runs the pipe right next to the back of the alternator. With the fox setup, the intake pipe clears the alternator with lots of room. My old Anderson N/A power pipe had about 1/4" clearance from the back of the alternator.

Jeremy, I followed the link in the second post, the pics didn't work when I used it either but it's pretty straight forward, you'll be fine without them. The biggest thing is making sure you get the TPS voltage adjusted properly or it will not idle worth a shit.

As far as the big ass 2" TB spacer, I didn't use one of those. I used this one:

EB-75.JPG

http://www.thedetailzone.com/Ford%20Fuel%20Inj%20Access.htm

scroll about half way down to "FORD 5.0 EGR ELIMINATOR PLATE" - I believe it came with an extra gasket also, since you will need a gasket on both sides of it.

Then I used one of these throttle brackets, which IMO are far nicer than the stock fox bracket:

hw9d6914_1000px.jpg

http://mc-machine.com/mcm_joom/content/view/23/36/

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Probably because his car is a pushrod? It deletes the intake elbow giving the air a more direct route into the manifolds

Im not saying its dumb, i was just really surprised id never seen it before. :biggrin: Is it a decent performance gain, or more for f/i and looks?

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In addition to the better air flow, the fox TB setup is supposed to offer better throttle response also. One of the biggest benefits is access to a MUCH better selection of aftermarket throttle bodies, i.e. Accufab, etc. Accufab doesn't even make a throttle body for 94-95 anymore, I've heard they used to make one but dropped it because they couldn't get the performance gains they were after because of the elbow design of the intake after the TB. Also, if you would ever be looking to get a throttle body bigger than 75mm, you would be out of luck with the 94-95 setup. All the TB's larger than 75mm are the fox body style. Lastly, another benefit is the routing of the intake pipe (at least it was a benefit in my case). The stock 94-95 setup causes clearance problems with larger intakes like the Anderson and other CAI-style intakes, beause it runs the pipe right next to the back of the alternator. With the fox setup, the intake pipe clears the alternator with lots of room. My old Anderson N/A power pipe had about 1/4" clearance from the back of the alternator.

Awesome, thanks!

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In addition to the better air flow, the fox TB setup is supposed to offer better throttle response also. One of the biggest benefits is access to a MUCH better selection of aftermarket throttle bodies, i.e. Accufab, etc. Accufab doesn't even make a throttle body for 94-95 anymore, I've heard they used to make one but dropped it because they couldn't get the performance gains they were after because of the elbow design of the intake after the TB. Also, if you would ever be looking to get a throttle body bigger than 75mm, you would be out of luck with the 94-95 setup. All the TB's larger than 75mm are the fox body style. Lastly, another benefit is the routing of the intake pipe (at least it was a benefit in my case). The stock 94-95 setup causes clearance problems with larger intakes like the Anderson and other CAI-style intakes, beause it runs the pipe right next to the back of the alternator. With the fox setup, the intake pipe clears the alternator with lots of room. My old Anderson N/A power pipe had about 1/4" clearance from the back of the alternator.

Jeremy, I followed the link in the second post, the pics didn't work when I used it either but it's pretty straight forward, you'll be fine without them. The biggest thing is making sure you get the TPS voltage adjusted properly or it will not idle worth a shit.

As far as the big ass 2" TB spacer, I didn't use one of those. I used this one:

EB-75.JPG

http://www.thedetailzone.com/Ford%20Fuel%20Inj%20Access.htm

scroll about half way down to "FORD 5.0 EGR ELIMINATOR PLATE" - I believe it came with an extra gasket also, since you will need a gasket on both sides of it.

Then I used one of these throttle brackets, which IMO are far nicer than the stock fox bracket:

hw9d6914_1000px.jpg

http://mc-machine.com/mcm_joom/content/view/23/36/

o0o0o Fancy stuff!!

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^^ Actually that MC Machine throttle bracket isn't expensive for what it is. A better deal IMO than paying someone for a rusted old bracket they pulled off a 180,000 mile fox or something, then having to clean it up and paint it only to end up with something that is still big and clunky.

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Im not saying its dumb, i was just really surprised id never seen it before. :biggrin: Is it a decent performance gain, or more for f/i and looks?

Some people do it, but I don't personally recommend it unless you have to. It does give you more choices in valve covers and a slightly quicker throttle response though. The Fox throttle body is an older design though, and the the throttle response is outweighed by the quality of the throttle body for me personally. I had two Foxbodies in the past, and the throttle bodies would jam all the time. The Fox throttle cable also has a tendancy to wear out and fall off if you remove it too many times too. The truth is that there are throttle bodies and valve covers available for an SN 5.0 for almost every application without doing a Fox throttle body swap. There's a lot of talk of performance gains, but as far as I can tell it's just hearsay. There's a guy who posts on here that got talked into swapping to a Fox throttle body on an aluminum head 351 on the pretence that it would gain power. He went through the trouble of doing the swap and when he redynoed the car it actually lost a hp. The elbow region of the intake just isn't the most restrictive part of the air path. I haven't seen any evidence of it making the car run any smoother either. Most people who go through the trouble of swapping the throttle body have already done a number of other mods that justify a tune. If it's tuned correctly it runs fine either way.

Kurt

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I had two Foxbodies in the past, and the throttle bodies would jam all the time. The Fox throttle cable also has a tendancy to wear out and fall off if you remove it too many times too. The truth is that there are throttle bodies and valve covers available for an SN 5.0 for almost every application without doing a Fox throttle body swap.

If you were having problems with the throtte plate sticking closed, Its YOUR fault. #1 you didnt take the time to check the fitment of the throttle blade, and match it to the interior bore of the TB. #2 your throttle stop screw wasnt adjusted correctly. #3 you shouldnt be snapping your foot off the throttle.

If you buy a fox TB and find that the butterfly gets stuck internally, you should hold the butterfly open and color the inside of the TB bore with a sharpie. You then snap the blade shut a few times to score through the ink. Mark where the scores are occurig, on the butterfly itself (with the sharpie) and then remove the butterfly. Smooth and re-contour the edge of the butterfly with some 800-1000 grit sand paper. Refit the blade and test again.

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On 2/6/2013 at 6:35 PM, revhead347 said:

Some people do it, but I don't personally recommend it unless you have to. It does give you more choices in valve covers and a slightly quicker throttle response though. The Fox throttle body is an older design though, and the the throttle response is outweighed by the quality of the throttle body for me personally. I had two Foxbodies in the past, and the throttle bodies would jam all the time. The Fox throttle cable also has a tendancy to wear out and fall off if you remove it too many times too. The truth is that there are throttle bodies and valve covers available for an SN 5.0 for almost every application without doing a Fox throttle body swap. There's a lot of talk of performance gains, but as far as I can tell it's just hearsay. There's a guy who posts on here that got talked into swapping to a Fox throttle body on an aluminum head 351 on the pretence that it would gain power. He went through the trouble of doing the swap and when he redynoed the car it actually lost a hp. The elbow region of the intake just isn't the most restrictive part of the air path. I haven't seen any evidence of it making the car run any smoother either. Most people who go through the trouble of swapping the throttle body have already done a number of other mods that justify a tune. If it's tuned correctly it runs fine either way.

Kurt

Yes if I don't have to do it I certainly don't want to. Why the need for the elbow adapter anyway? I think I see the need for it if you are using the cold air intake but why can't you just bolt up the 95 tb straight to the intake? Is it because of the length of the cable? 

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On 2/11/2013 at 11:41 AM, The Mk2 said:

If you were having problems with the throtte plate sticking closed, Its YOUR fault. #1 you didnt take the time to check the fitment of the throttle blade, and match it to the interior bore of the TB. #2 your throttle stop screw wasnt adjusted correctly. #3 you shouldnt be snapping your foot off the throttle.

If you buy a fox TB and find that the butterfly gets stuck internally, you should hold the butterfly open and color the inside of the TB bore with a sharpie. You then snap the blade shut a few times to score through the ink. Mark where the scores are occurig, on the butterfly itself (with the sharpie) and then remove the butterfly. Smooth and re-contour the edge of the butterfly with some 800-1000 grit sand paper. Refit the blade and test again.

I'd like to see if there were any guys who actually didn't do the swap and had good results?

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On 2/11/2013 at 11:41 AM, The Mk2 said:

If you were having problems with the throtte plate sticking closed, Its YOUR fault. #1 you didnt take the time to check the fitment of the throttle blade, and match it to the interior bore of the TB. #2 your throttle stop screw wasnt adjusted correctly. #3 you shouldnt be snapping your foot off the throttle.

If you buy a fox TB and find that the butterfly gets stuck internally, you should hold the butterfly open and color the inside of the TB bore with a sharpie. You then snap the blade shut a few times to score through the ink. Mark where the scores are occurig, on the butterfly itself (with the sharpie) and then remove the butterfly. Smooth and re-contour the edge of the butterfly with some 800-1000 grit sand paper. Refit the blade and test again.

I'd like to see if there were any guys who actually didn't do the swap and had good results?

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I have done this swap and it makes working on my supercharged car so much easier the stock discharge pipe is a pain with the elbow

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@from6to8 I think it's because it's hard to find a large diameter sn95 style throttle body to fit the intake without the elbow.  Could be wrong though, I have yet to find a 90mm sn95 5.0L stye throttle body however. 

 

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On 9/26/2016 at 8:25 AM, Steve-Oh said:

@from6to8 I think it's because it's hard to find a large diameter sn95 style throttle body to fit the intake without the elbow.  Could be wrong though, I have yet to find a 90mm sn95 5.0L stye throttle body however. 

 

it also would not help that much to put a 90 mm tb when the throat of the cobra/gt intake is only 70mm.  Now put on an aftermarket fox and you have room to grow.

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On 9/7/2016 at 8:33 AM, Yeahloh95 said:

I have done this swap and it makes working on my supercharged car so much easier the stock discharge pipe is a pain with the elbow

cool. Any issues with the throttle jamming? 

What tb did you use?

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On 9/26/2016 at 9:25 AM, Steve-Oh said:

@from6to8 I think it's because it's hard to find a large diameter sn95 style throttle body to fit the intake without the elbow.  Could be wrong though, I have yet to find a 90mm sn95 5.0L stye throttle body however. 

 

gotcha man. I have pretty much decided to just go ahead and do the fox conversion but surely want to do whatever I need to do to avoid throttle jamming issues

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On 9/30/2016 at 10:30 AM, ttocs said:

it also would not help that much to put a 90 mm tb when the throat of the cobra/gt intake is only 70mm.  Now put on an aftermarket fox and you have room to grow.

definitely understand that as well

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i have had no issues with throttle sticking , I went with a billet 75 mm accufab tb

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On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 10:30 AM, ttocs said:

it also would not help that much to put a 90 mm tb when the throat of the cobra/gt intake is only 70mm.  Now put on an aftermarket fox and you have room to grow.

haha marvelous how my search now brought me to this thread while googling. I'm going to do the fox conversion for my 331. I was going to just re-use my Sn stuff from my 302 but as for the throttle body I'll just go ahead and do the conversion. I'll likely go with a 70 mm accufab, professional products, or bbk as they seem the most common names??

 

And I'm building 2 cars, the other a 400 W. Lastly I want a terminator. And my intake is my performer 2 with 70 mm opening. No need on going with a larger fox tb for upgrading later. The 331 will stay and will be the last motor I do for it. NA non- track

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2 minutes ago, 410sn95 said:

90mm Accufab.

 

No sticking.

whatup man? I remember us talking here or somewhere else and may have exchanged numbers as I had more in depth questions. Well now I have my list together and it's changed back and forth some lol. I should be ready to start on the 331 build first of the year. The past week I've decided to do the fox swap for the 331 as I was definitely going to do it on the 400 W but over the course of the past few days and seeing a thread on stangnet, I've decided to do what fastgtfairlane did and he used his SN tb just like you would use the fox tb for the conversion. He had to make some adjustments to the SN throttle cable but got it to work and said he had no issues.

 

Now I didn't like the way his cable was routed on the top of his intake and used one of the intake bolts to secure the bracket. His edelbrock intake puts the tb in the center or more in the center it seems but I'm still not sure why he chose to run it on top of the intake like that. If you get a chance, check out " homemade cold air pipe" and click images. It will probably be on the 3rd row and he used pvc pipe for his cold air. After doing more in depth research over the past few days, it seems the 96-04 pipe would work for me. I originally wanted a pipe I could get powdercoated and know the best bet was to try and find a used one which I did, or mock one up. Seeing the work I'd have to put in to mock it up and have it put together then powdercoat, I'd be a good bit of money into the pipe and probably more than worth it. So a chrome pipe will do me just fine. I'll just dress the engine up a little more proportion to the chrome. I wanted the intake and pipe coated the same color. I've seen some pipes on ebay for about 50 bucks shipped, chrome. Other vendors have BBK for 170 something and I saw SR performance for 75 bucks. So 50 bucks will likely do as I think that pipe will work fine for me. I'll use my 70 mm professional products but I'd have to buy another  meter as I'm going up to 30's for the 331. NA car, no track, and when it's all said and done I'll have a 331, 400 W, and lastly a Terminator.

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Yea, been a long time.

 

I took a peak at the sn95 tb without elbow.  The packaging is not ideal and I can see why he had to run the throttle cable over the top.  Better of going fox with correct cable bracket, IMHO.

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16 hours ago, 410sn95 said:

Yea, been a long time.

 

I took a peak at the sn95 tb without elbow.  The packaging is not ideal and I can see why he had to run the throttle cable over the top.  Better of going fox with correct cable bracket, IMHO.

What are you referring to when you say the packaging is not ideal?

 

One thing I'll do is do a mock setup and disassemble the tb and reassemble it and see how about cable routing and length. Right now that motor is still in the wrecked car and I'm going to move it out of one garage into another where the car will eventually be broken down.

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8 hours ago, from6to8 said:

What are you referring to when you say the packaging is not ideal?

 

One thing I'll do is do a mock setup and disassemble the tb and reassemble it and see how about cable routing and length. Right now that motor is still in the wrecked car and I'm going to move it out of one garage into another where the car will eventually be broken down.

 

The two throttle bodies are designed to be in  different orientations.  Mounting the sn tb directly to manifold will pretty much dictate having the cable routed over the manifold unless you are using a spyder type with elbow.  This is due to the fox tb having a side pull whereas the sn is straight back.  You could potentially rotate the TB so the throttle linkage is underneath.  Then a whole new can of worms is opened.

 

fox tb is a nice clean setup but will cost some money.  Or keep the sn95 tb with elbow and save some money.

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17 hours ago, 410sn95 said:

 

The two throttle bodies are designed to be in  different orientations.  Mounting the sn tb directly to manifold will pretty much dictate having the cable routed over the manifold unless you are using a spyder type with elbow.  This is due to the fox tb having a side pull whereas the sn is straight back.  You could potentially rotate the TB so the throttle linkage is underneath.  Then a whole new can of worms is opened.

 

fox tb is a nice clean setup but will cost some money.  Or keep the sn95 tb with elbow and save some money. 

 

17 hours ago, 410sn95 said:

 

The two throttle bodies are designed to be in  different orientations.  Mounting the sn tb directly to manifold will pretty much dictate having the cable routed over the manifold unless you are using a spyder type with elbow.  This is due to the fox tb having a side pull whereas the sn is straight back.  You could potentially rotate the TB so the throttle linkage is underneath.  Then a whole new can of worms is opened.

 

fox tb is a nice clean setup but will cost some money.  Or keep the sn95 tb with elbow and save some money.

 

Edited by from6to8

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17 hours ago, 410sn95 said:

 

The two throttle bodies are designed to be in  different orientations.  Mounting the sn tb directly to manifold will pretty much dictate having the cable routed over the manifold unless you are using a spyder type with elbow.  This is due to the fox tb having a side pull whereas the sn is straight back.  You could potentially rotate the TB so the throttle linkage is underneath.  Then a whole new can of worms is opened.

 

fox tb is a nice clean setup but will cost some money.  Or keep the sn95 tb with elbow and save some money.

 

Edited by from6to8

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17 hours ago, 410sn95 said:

 

The two throttle bodies are designed to be in  different orientations.  Mounting the sn tb directly to manifold will pretty much dictate having the cable routed over the manifold unless you are using a spyder type with elbow.  This is due to the fox tb having a side pull whereas the sn is straight back.  You could potentially rotate the TB so the throttle linkage is underneath.  Then a whole new can of worms is opened.

 

fox tb is a nice clean setup but will cost some money.  Or keep the sn95 tb with elbow and save some money.

I did some mocks last night and see what I'd have to do to make it work and yes it will have to run over the back side of the top of the intake but and if I do that I'll have a bracket to hold it down instead of up high in the air as his cable is. But all in all I'll think about it as to if I'll just for now use the elbow and not know rather the difference in the routing will have gave much much better throttle response. Yes the other way is a cleaner look overall but not a game changer as to all of the things necessary I'd have to do. 

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