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RassCar's Racecar: Snake with a bad heart

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"Snake with a bad heart" sounds so lame and cheesy now that I've typed it, but it's staying until I get the car running (It lives now!). Anyway, I mentioned I "got a thing" with a pic of one of the amber tail lights a couple days ago. The "thing" is a 1999 Cobra with a hydrolocked engine. The goal is to eventually make it into a competent track car, but for a while I just want to get it running and be able to enjoy it. Hopefully I'll be able to document and photograph my work and track time with this car better than I have with my GT. The GT may also sneak in here if I do anything more with it. The Cobra also has 84k miles at the time of purchase. Oh, and the JLT intake that came on the car is absolutely not going back on as I'm not taking any chances once it's in running order. (*Edit from the future, the JLT is probably going back on.) For those curious, the car has had the important recalls/TSBs performed.

Prepare your butts, amateur pics inbound!

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I was pretty surprised it had the original cats still in place. The Borla exhaust was a nice bonus.

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Edited by RassCar
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The stinger exhaust is definitely a nice bonus, that's $600+ alone. The color is right, and I have always loved the 99/01 cobra front bumper. Should be a pretty nice ride when you're done with it. 84k is low low low for a 1999 anything.

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Very cool.  99/01 bumpers are hands down the best looking bumpers.  Just needs running a nice set of wheels and you're set!   As far as track car are you shooting for any particular class or just a car to track on occasion? 

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11 hours ago, 95riosnake said:

The stinger exhaust is definitely a nice bonus, that's $600+ alone. The color is right, and I have always loved the 99/01 cobra front bumper. Should be a pretty nice ride when you're done with it. 84k is low low low for a 1999 anything.

Imagine my surprise when I found my GT with 54K.

 

8 hours ago, Lanter said:

Very cool.  99/01 bumpers are hands down the best looking bumpers.  Just needs running a nice set of wheels and you're set!   As far as track car are you shooting for any particular class or just a car to track on occasion? 

Not sure yet. I've got a pack of SCCA info I need to finish reading. 

 

7 hours ago, GTTRacing91PGT said:

Looking forward to this one! Those 99 bumpers are hard to come by at a decent price. I've been looking ever since I bought my Mach and they're not cheap! Definitely a good looking car.

Yeah, 03/04 body parts come up way more often. I may put a termi hood on it. I'll probably also change the wing to a newer 01+ style.

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9 hours ago, Yeahloh95 said:

pretty cool it already has an irs swap

The first thing I asked the seller was whether or not it still had the IRS. I actually bought an '03 IRS cradle and sway bar about a month ago to build it up and put in the GT or a roller but now I don't need it.

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Got the transmission out last night. Everything from the flywheel back seems to be in good order, and found it has a Steeda Tri-Ax shifter (I'll probably swap that to an MGW shifter eventually). Also found the engine block is a late production Teksid block, casting number XR3E . I kinda expected it and didn't try to force it, but the engine will not turn over. I know there's going to be some level of rust in the cylinders because the right side exhaust manifold still had water droplets in it. Hopefully there's no damage to the crankshaft. I should have the engine out within a week or two and I'll know for certain from there. 

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40 minutes ago, RedTwilight said:

Nice looking Cobra.  

Hopefully it's something simple with the engine.  What are your plans for the rebuild?

I'm not sure yet. I'm split on whether I should stay as budget friendly as possible to get it running ASAP or go full forged rotating assembly. If i go forged then I'll probably order this kit http://www.modularheadshop.com/i-24493415-4-6l-manley-pistons-manley-h-beam-connecting-rods-combo.html?ref=category:1268148 with flat top pistons and have them cut for 4V valve reliefs. What I really want to do is a 3.7in big bore build but that's not going to happen for a long time because I both can't afford it and I do want to drive the car sooner rather than later.

As far as the top end is concerned, it's going to stay stock for a while. I'm driving myself crazy trying to figure out the best way to do an NA build. Do I port the hell out of the stock heads/intake? Go to 03/04 heads? Maybe even B-heads, as they have the most runner volume by far. I really ought to email someone like NA SVT or John Mihovetz. :banging:LOL, as you can see, I've got a lot to figure out.

 

TL;DR

Short term-> decide on stock rebuild or forged rods/pistons

Long term-> maximum effort NA big bore bankruptcy machine

Edited by RassCar
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For the record. Got the hood off yesterday, drained the coolant (looked fresh so that may be good news for cylinder head flatness), and unbolted the A/C compessor. Checked to see if the oil had already been drained and found it had been. What little oil was left looked a bit like a milkshake which was to be expected. Considering removing A/C entirely but may leave it until I make more headway on the car as a whole. It's not super difficult to remove with the engine in the car so it shouldn't be a problem to do at a later time. Worst part is the evaporator and heater core.

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Go straight for the forged parts during the rebuild.  Spend the money and time only once if you decide not to do the big bore but still want to do the max effort NA build.  
I used to want a big bore but have read about way too many problems with going that route on the aluminum block.   

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32 minutes ago, RedTwilight said:

Go straight for the forged parts during the rebuild.  Spend the money and time only once if you decide not to do the big bore but still want to do the max effort NA build.  
I used to want a big bore but have read about way too many problems with going that route on the aluminum block.   

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'll go the forged route. The number of relatively stock cobras that have chucked stock rods worries me quite a bit. Although part of why I wanted to do big bore was because of cylinder wear issues with stroker builds. *Worst I ever read about big bore builds was head gasket sealing issues. What have you heard? It's no big deal if I don't do it as I already have a few reasons to put it off for a long time. 

 

*theres a bit more as to why I wanted big bore but that's what got me started on it. 

Edited by RassCar
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Besides the head gasket issues for both wet and dry inserts I didn't really like how the bore has to be cut very close to the cooling passages.      

 

Also after the inserts, the original blocks' walls are left too thin and the structural stability of the aluminum block could become an issue on higher horsepower blown cars.  

 

I originally wanted to do the big bore well pretty much more cubes can equal more power.  The other benefit would be the un-shrouding of the valves to help air flow.  But the negatives outweighed the benefits greatly for my build.   

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15 hours ago, RedTwilight said:

Also after the inserts, the original blocks' walls are left too thin and the structural stability of the aluminum block could become an issue on higher horsepower blown cars.   

I've always wondered how block strength was affected. Kinda figured it wouldn't be too bad for an NA build with high compression. If I went the blown route then I'd mimic Accufab's race cars as much as possible and keep stock bore while cranking up boost. I would love some advice from them even going NA but at this point there are still no 100% solid plans for the car aside from fixing the engine.

15 hours ago, RedTwilight said:

I originally wanted to do the big bore well pretty much more cubes can equal more power.  The other benefit would be the un-shrouding of the valves to help air flow. 

^Yup, this right here.

 

Side note, getting this engine prepared for removal is a PITA. Thought I'd have it ready by now but nope. Also, any opinions and advice on this build is much appreciated. This is my first legitimate project car (the GT is a whore for my time and money but not a full-time project) so I look forward to whatever input you guys/gals might have. I hope to have multiple pages on this before too long, even if it's mostly me keeping record of my work.

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One thing that popped in my head is upgrade the oil pump during the rebuild.  I like the 3v or '13-'14 GT500 pump with TSS or Boundary Engineering billet gears.  If you decide to still use the '99 pump then at least upgrade to the billet gears. 

Also upgrade the timing chain components, guides, tensioners, and dowel pins.  Check out http://www.cobraengineering.net/ for the pins and tensioner.

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2 minutes ago, RedTwilight said:

One thing that popped in my head is upgrade the oil pump during the rebuild.  I like the 3v or '13-'14 GT500 pump with TSS or Boundary Engineering billet gears.  If you decide to still use the '99 pump then at least upgrade to the billet gears. 

Also upgrade the timing chain components, guides, tensioners, and dowel pins.  Check out http://www.cobraengineering.net/ for the pins and tensioner.

Are you psychic? Have you been reading my mind? I've just been doing some research on the GT500 pump with billet gears idea over the last couple days. I was also looking into the Boundary gears as a cheaper and still better than OEM alternative to TSS. I will probably opt for the GT500 pump for the steel backing plate. I had never heard of Cobra Engineering so I'll definitely look into that.

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4 minutes ago, RassCar said:

Are you psychic? Have you been reading my mind? I've just been doing some research on the GT500 pump with billet gears idea over the last couple days. I was also looking into the Boundary gears as a cheaper and still better than OEM alternative to TSS. I will probably opt for the GT500 pump for the steel backing plate. I had never heard of Cobra Engineering so I'll definitely look into that.

 

Not really psychic...   Psycho maybe!;)

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keep the heads relatively stock and just throw boost at it?  i dont know if i would go the route or porting the heads and doing bigger valves unless i was REALLY trying to squeeze everything out of it.   what are typical gains for porting these heads anyways?   i'd say prob stick with the c heads too, at least you have more blower options :) 

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On 12/8/2016 at 3:50 PM, Blackmage said:

keep the heads relatively stock and just throw boost at it?  i dont know if i would go the route or porting the heads and doing bigger valves unless i was REALLY trying to squeeze everything out of it.   what are typical gains for porting these heads anyways?   i'd say prob stick with the c heads too, at least you have more blower options :) 

I don't know how I missed this post. Nah, I'm gonna hold off boost for a long time... probably. For some reason I've really been attracted to the idea of an NA 4v for the last couple years and want to see just how far I can take it. At the very least a good NA engine makes for a good boosted engine.

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Finally got the engine out! Also found some good and not so good things. The bad: I forgot the intake valves aren't stainless and can rust too. They're rusted bad and will very likely need replaced (shit! :baller:). One set of intake valves is even still holding water. The intake manifold was also full of water and I dumped out what I could. Didn't even realize it until I went to look it over and it puked water out one side when I turned it over. I haven't seen the exhaust valves as the exhaust manifolds are still on. Good news? I pulled one valve cover and the cams were clean. Thank god because that was going to be a fortune if the cams were wiped. Didn't see anything else that might be bad either. Still have to check the other side though so if I die of a heart-attack at 22 you'll know why.large.584c099d3f8b0_IMG_14021.JPGlarge.584c09accd98f_IMG_14041.JPGlarge.584c09b652c89_IMG_14051.JPGlarge.584c09d2f071f_IMG_14081.JPGlarge.584c0a025f9ee_IMG_14121.JPGlarge.584c0a0a82334_IMG_14151.JPGlarge.584c0a240d28b_IMG_14171.JPGlarge.584c0a4887340_IMG_14281.JPG

4X4 Cobra! Oh, and the same Continental tires I hate on the rear of my GT. I don't hate Continental as a whole but these tires suck. These will eventually be replaced as soon as I can afford tires for a car getting engine work that I didn't need in the first place.

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I've found a problem. A pretty bad one. As I was removing the exhaust manifolds a day or two ago I found a rod stuck in the block. After looking around, I found a hole behind the oil cooler. What appears to have happened is only the #1 cylinder actually tried to light off with water in the chamber and it blew the #1 rod in half. The bottom half of the rod came around and knocked out a chunk behind the oil cooler, hit the very bottom edge of the #5 cylinder, then lodged in the block below the #1 cylinder. It also gave the oil pickup tube a good whack. I'm trying to figure out how to proceed. At this moment I'm going to continue disassembly (and hope the piston didn't destroy the head, not worried about valves as I need new ones anyway) and see if it's possible to have the holes patched. No structural ribbing got wiped out so as long as there's no cracks it should be okay. The #5 cylinder may still be usable as it'll get largely cleaned up from boring and it's only the very bottom inside edge. I didn't take any pics of the inside of the engine so I'll have to do that next time. *I just realized the #1 piston may either be cockeyed in the cylinder or stuck on a valve as it hasn't moved as I've been moving the engine.

Aside from that, I've confirmed the cylinder bores are indeed rusted up. The other 7 rods appear straight to my eyes but they're not getting reused. I'll probably keep one as a future art project and sell the other 6 for someone else to do the same.

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Edited by RassCar
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2 hours ago, Blackmage said:

time to find a mark viii short block! they can be had for stupid cheap from most junk yards if theres one close by.  shitty luck though

Yup. Pretty far from happy about finding that. I don't want to junk the block but I'm also unsure if trying to fix it will actually work.

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Ouch... never fun finding that.  

 

I picked up a complete Mark VIII engine from a pull-a-part a couple of years ago for $300, definitely the cheapest route.  What's really bad is that I just sold a whole 96-98 Cobra engine that was dang near perfect about a month ago... for $400.   @RassCar

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I was hoping I wouldn't be working on the GT again anytime soon but the fuel pump kicked the bucket. Figures<_<. Got a new one coming from LMR but missed the deadline on shipping before Christmas. Who knows, might still get it by then. 

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Current engine tear down progress. Got down to the shortblock, and removed the broken rod/piston. Haven't removed the others yet but the crankshaft bearing surfaces I've seen (front 2 rod journals) looked pretty amazing, like new. The bearing for the broken rod even looked pretty good.

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Left bank cylinders.large.IMG_1465.JPG

Left side cylinder head.large.IMG_1477.JPG

Right side cylinder head.large.IMG_1478.JPGlarge.IMG_1480.JPG

Both of these are of the right cylinder bank. Left side isn't as nasty.large.IMG_1482.JPG

Here's the rod/piston that broke. The other side of the rod is still stuck in the block.

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ugh that engine looks terrible :(  wonder how bad the rust has eaten into the cylinder walls too.  with all that and the holes in the block, id probably be searching for a WAP or Teksid block at this point.  

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10 hours ago, RedTwilight said:

8fc37cac2fa5dd5a4e086044fa699be6af0ed39f

 

 

I second Wilbur's advice about finding a Mark VIII block in the junk yard.  It's pretty much the same Teksid block as the early '99 Cobras.

 

9 hours ago, Blackmage said:

ugh that engine looks terrible :(  wonder how bad the rust has eaten into the cylinder walls too.  with all that and the holes in the block, id probably be searching for a WAP or Teksid block at this point.  

Yup, I've got no hope left for this block. There's a Mark 8 longblock not too far from me that I might try getting. It would be nice if I could get another 99 Cobra block but I don't think it's going to happen. At least the heads are still good, even if they need new valves. I've been plotting out what I'm going to do for machining and reassembly. Initially I was going to shoot for 11:1 compression but I think I'm going to aim higher and go for 11.5 or 12:1 on either 93 or E85 scratch that, I probably won't go north of 12:1 so I can stay on 93.

Edited by RassCar
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Here's some numbers I'm playing with:

Bore: 3.572in

Stroke: 3.543in

Cylinder head volume: 47cc

Effective dome volume: 0cc (Flat top)

Deck clearance: .005in

Compressed gasket thickness: .030in

On Summit's compression calculator this gives me a 12.02:1 compression ratio. It'll probably drop a little bit below 12 with valve reliefs in the pistons.

Calculator here: https://www.summitracing.com/expertadviceandnews/calcsandtools/compression-calculator

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I crunched the numbers on what I'd like to do for this build and had an unfortunate case of reality setting in:(.

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What I wanted to do was going to end up being around $5k in parts and machining (and probably going well over $5k with tools I'd need:baller:). I sat last night trying to figure out just what I was going to do to achieve what I wanted to do and came up with nothing satisfactory in the short term. But! just a few minutes ago I realized something. It won't be my dream build but it'll get that red hunk of metal on the road on its own power with 4V heads intact (had been playing with the idea of swapping my 2V in it to drive it). I'll acquire a mark 8 engine (at least a shortblock) and use the entire shortblock. I won't change anything about it other than add my Cobra oil pan and oil cooler. Along with that I'm going to send my heads to MHS and have them do their 4V refresh job and probably new valves. Because I have a habit of hoarding my old parts, I'll use the old flywheel off my GT and reuse the clutch that came out of the cobra. This should get me driving in the time frame I had hoped for (in time for the car show at Parkland College in IL) and keep my wallet happy until I'm able to go the full forged route. Those of you keeping up with this may have started with that idea (and I should have) but the more I thought about it the more I got stuck on the idea of doing something that would be future proof (forged and all new parts), but I just can't pull it anytime soon and I'd rather be driving it as long as it makes something close to it's rated power while being half way reliable. This achieves that until the money is there for more. So figure on something like $1,500-1,700 for headwork, $200-300 for a shortblock, plus another $250 for new seals and bolts where needed and I'm good to go for less than half of my original plan.

:bananalama:

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I now have a 98 mark 8 longblock. It came with the engine stand and a box of extra stuff (just various parts and harnesses). The engine apparently has 85k miles but that's about all I know of it. The guy I bought it from wasn't the one that pulled it and I have yet to pull the valve covers to see the actual inside conditions.large.IMG_1515.JPGlarge.IMG_1514.JPG

Bonus, it turns over smoothly and the block isn't Swiss cheese!:D

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4 minutes ago, Blackmage said:

nice! looks like a 97-98 one too.  

I forgot to mention it at first but it is a 98 engine. What differences would there be otherwise? I didn't know they could be visually different from the 93-95 engines. 

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