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OLD H2S

Old Fart's AutoX build

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Here is todays pic of the stock '96 17" wheels I just coated in black and clear for protection from the brake dust from the soft pads. I did not do a top job ,just blasted the corrosion pits and flaking paint and shot them in black epoxy primer and a clear coat. I am going to use these as my rims for the 200 traction tires when racing. Why only stock rims you ask?  I run 18x10's on the street but they get hard to adjust without rubbing front and rear and adding spacers for the coilover settings BS. 

 

IMG_1317.JPG

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Took the car out on Sunday to it's first autocross, got my butt kicked. I was in CP class with my friends and was outclassed by more power, 900 lbs springs, Hoosier tires and experience.

I have not got my rear sway bar and my ride height was set too high with 275/175 springs and my pan hard bar is binding up. The first time I banged second gear the diff hit the wheel well and also broke the factory spot welds at the bottom of the right side torque box, pics tomorrow. I flipped the rear mounted battery and had an acid mess go all over, I build the trans and it hits second hard, guess I am going to have to keep hitting it to see what brakes...

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This is all on your new engine setup? How is that thing running, did you get a good tune for it?

 

 

 

Dont you know that you should have an AGM battery if you put it in the trunk? lol

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I got 5 spare batteries and one is an Optima so my fault..I am going to Dillsburg???? tomorrow for the tune, should be a fun write up.  Wife threw out a bunch of stuff because they were "dirty" and I had to replace the charcoal canister and solenoid valve, and now the car runs much better. On the 24 pound injectors, the top end was great but it would bog down low, the 19's are better all around and I bumped up the pressure to 45 pounds. The Varitune mufflers took 400 miles to break in and now the closed position is quite and much more torque and the open position is nice and loud. The people that did the exhaust welding did a poor job. I could not get the car high enough to put it all together and do the welding myself so that will have to be done again. I got the interior finished and that was a butt kicker all day job to get it right but now I can run in CAM class too so that was my plan to run in as many classes a possible but I still might have made too many compromises to do well in any, we will see.. The car is getting better everyday but it is killing me. Pictures and dyno curves coming...

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How did you increase the fuel pressure?

 

 

Im excited to see what this thing makes, youve got a lot of technical work into this thing and Im super curious how it turns out. Im going to have to look up those varitune mufflers, ive not heard of them before.

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This is the hot place for tunes now. The race car builders say "no come backs " from these guys- http://www.mcnewsautomotive.com/  

They have 3 dyno's, no waiting, got me in in 2 days!  I have been waiting for Horsepower By Hermann too long to get to my car, I am close by and he is barely open with too long of a back log so off to Dillsburg Friday. 

The mufflers are from BBK so this is good but not as nice as Borla... I wanted something that fit in the space that are not too long and something quite for the wife to drive without going to cutouts. The big screw on the end runs a plug in and out that changes it from high flow to low flow, took some miles to get the plug to seat evenlly on both sides and they adjust for no droning so I hope.

I am a low HP high RPM build for autocross that runs at 60 MPH in 2nd. gear so I have been jumping from 19 to 24 pound injectors so we will see if 24's at 39 PSI or 19's at 45 PSI are the way to go. You can see the head build under " What is the valve angle" in the 2V section on the other site.

Time to play guess the RWHP after you look at the thread data. The cams are Bullet RV cams for NPI heads so they are the closest I found to Ford PI cams.

My seat of the pants guess is 250 RWHP.

Flame on gents.
 

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Here is the pic of the broken spot welds on the bottom of the torque box, on the left hand side the paint line is move to the right and there is a wave in the sheet metal going up to the LCA.

IMG_1322-D.jpg

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Well the heck with silly little broken welds, I killed the engine... it had a stroke. It threw a clot on dyno pull number 6 and the junk went throughout the motor and clogged up some lifters and is cutting down the bearings. Motor lasted 750 miles, I failed to get all the dirt out of some oil passage somewhere. Time to raise the compression, I am at 145 PSI in all cylinders what do you think I can go up to on static compression.

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You could easily go 12-13:1. My first build was 12 and my aluminum block in the car now is 13:1. They run on 93 octane and my cranking cylinder pressure is 237 psi. 

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Put in a stock PI 4.6, add your bolt ons, and go. One thing I've learned running my 94 on road courses is reliability is king. Nothing like always being nervous about oil pressure or overheating while beating the snot out of your car. 250-300 at the wheels should be relatively easy on a stock tune with the right combo. I run CMC and we cannot do tuning, class limit is 260/310. Not sure what class you're building twards, but seat time is more important out of the gate.

 

I would however be concerned about that rear suspension. The bushing doesn't look like its quite sitting in that pocket square. So I'd question whether the rear end is squared up. The tail end geometry is very critical in the setup of these dinosaurs.

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My lack of experience does not bother me at all, autocross seems to me to be about maintaining momentum and trying not to use the brakes much or scrubbing off too much speed around a turn. I was really scrubbing hard, too hard, got to learn the lines and ROTATE. I had 2 DNF's for not seeing the correct path to follow, this is completely different from road racing where I am looking a quarter mile ahead. 

Yes you are right about the rear set up and thank you for noticing, I was going to send the pic to MM for advice because the other side LCA is splayed outboard also and these are their LCA's. I had Steeda LCA's before and they lined up perfect so I have some fixing to do. The MM LCA's set the whole rear 2" to the left and the pan hard bar is adjusted to pull everything to the right, but the whole setup is binding BAD and that is a no go with MM. I was thinking I might have to cut the LCA's weld them to a neutral angle. MM says Ford was bad on measuring up the rear ends but with both LCA's splayed outward something is not right.

 On the motor there was a clot in there somewhere and I used straight 30wt. for 500 miles for break in with some extra zinc added. The oil looked clean coming out and the filter was clean when I cut it open. Then I put in AMSOIL 5-20 SIGNATURE and the high detergent load in it broke the clot free and the filter got overloaded and the bypass port opened and let the junk circulate and clog the lifters, grind the bearings, cut the cam towers. The good part is there is no binding in the motor now but when I shutdown the engine and the oil pressure is falling you can hear a slight rod knock.

The car runs strong and I have been driving it since the damage has been done and might as well clean out all the crap in it so it is easier to clean the oil journals later. I am at 260/290 right now and am racing in CP and CAM so I am at the bottom of the food chain. My static compression is 145, but 2 cylinders are 190 because of the hand porting job I did coming in at 34.5cc instead of 36cc like the other 6 are. The dyno guys were surprised they could not get the motor to knock and was the reason for the 12 pulls they did. I told them I cut .070 off the heads to get the piston to .025 clearance to the quench deck when it is hot and it will never knock. I think I will add some material to the head chambers to raise the compression a little more evenly.

Thanks for all your comments, they help me think of things I might have missed. I will get some pictures of the cut open oil filter posted up, It is black with crud.

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Dyslexia is forever....

Turns out it was not a dirt clot that did all the damage, I had the crankshaft timing position sensor gear in backwards. This is not a total bad thing BUT the nose of the Super Dampner I used is 1/4" shorter than stock and the whole lower end timing chain and lower gears can move in and out and the chain rubbed all the teeth off the sensor gear. So a whole lot of metal is in the motor. I have pictures but not now, I am still wandering around in circles...

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Oh man, that really sucks. Im sorry to hear the misfortune, but on a positive note, you will never make that mistake again so it can be chocked up to a learning experience.

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Wrong AGAIN!!!! ARRRG. Read this from Engine Builder Magazine, it explains everything I did wrong and it is easy to screw up, wish I had this info when it was going together.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2008/03/more-ammunition-for-the-ongoing-war-on-4-6l5-4l-ford-engine-misinformation/

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I've torn down the engine and the rod bearings look good, the mains show more wear than I like. I will polish the crank in the morning. Now is the time to change the cam timing If I want. Weld in some more compression into the heads, new bearings, a thick powder metal crankshaft timing gear, switch to studs for the oil pan from MMR to see if I can get it to stop leaking. The new power steering pump leaks, the exhaust pipe guys did a crappy job so I got all the pipe to do It right. 

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I have a Hurricane pump from MMR, I am moving fast because I built the engine with some key parts that do not need fiddling to reuse on purpose. Like the oil pump, just open it up, clean, lube, Loctite, reuse. Same for the Manley SVT Cobra rods, no damage, cleanup , reuse, they were all checked and sized the first time so they do not need much love this go around. Everything was balanced and checked for straightness on assembly because I new as a race engine this would be coming apart more than once, plus it is HOT outside and I got to move before I melt, 9 hours yesterday and I was whipped...

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20 minutes ago, OLD H2S said:

I have a Hurricane pump from MMR, I am moving fast because I built the engine with some key parts that do not need fiddling to reuse on purpose. Like the oil pump, just open it up, clean, lube, Loctite, reuse. Same for the Manley SVT Cobra rods, no damage, cleanup , reuse, they were all checked and sized the first time so they do not need much love this go around. Everything was balanced and checked for straightness on assembly because I new as a race engine this would be coming apart more than once, plus it is HOT outside and I got to move before I melt, 9 hours yesterday and I was whipped...

Its a good thing you prepared for it though. Do you have any pictures to share? Im excited to see what you do with the heads. Ive always thought about a set of npi heads with a quench pad welded in and a ceramic coated combustion chamber.

 

 

I didnt think it got hot all the way up there? You guys should have some nice weather lol

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Well the crank is in and torqued. I will get to the pictures later. The 5.4 truck heads going on a 3V block with 2V parts which is how I got messed up on the parts that are not universal fit and that article I posted from Engine Builder Mag. has the details on the mid year change Ford did that I did not catch and that lead to the lower chain gear on the crank not matching up to the timing sensor gear on the crank. So I thought is was a lump of dirt I missed then the timing gear being backwardss  then the crank damper being too short only to find out that the cheesy powered metal timing gear from the 3V is the right one according to Ford??? So I will do it their way and check for interference when I get that far.

I want to know how the pro drag teams clean the parts when doing a bearing change in the pits? They are flying, slamming it back together, do they have a 5 gallon bucket of goo to dip the parts and just blow them off before assembly?

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I grew up here with no AC, and I did not get it put in this house till 2 years ago and I am 62 years old.  Can't complain it's summer with 95 degreese and 90 percent humidity all the time, still got a blanket on my bed because it is too cold in the morning. I do try to get all the hard stuff done before noon and I drip all day and drink water like a fish but the hard part is getting enough salt or I will cramp up. Plus I am hoping to land a job in Florida and I will be welding in the middle of 3  5000 watt heated presses, not enough AC to overcome that so I try to stay acclumated to the heat so I can work normally.

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4 minutes ago, OLD H2S said:

I grew up here with no AC, and I did not get it put in this house till 2 years ago and I am 62 years old.  Can't complain it's summer with 95 degreese and 90 percent humidity all the time, still got a blanket on my bed because it is too cold in the morning. I do try to get all the hard stuff done before noon and I drip all day and drink water like a fish but the hard part is getting enough salt or I will cramp up. Plus I am hoping to land a job in Florida and I will be welding in the middle of 3  5000 watt heated presses, not enough AC to overcome that so I try to stay acclumated to the heat so I can work normally.

Oh wow, I didnt know it was that warm all the way up there. What makes you want to move to Florida? Its too hot down there lol

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We used to average 90 days a year over 90 degrees and have local contests to guess the number and the last 90 degree day here. Now whether we like it or not the sun's output is getting weaker for the next 30 years and we have  less hot days and the past 5 August's have been downright pleasant. Soon we will be fighting over dead squirrels in the road to make a new hat.

Florida is not bad, it is just the same as it is here, just longer, and warmer in the winter. I have a company that is interested in me because I know how to make some medical parts that few can because of the difficulty and the ISO, FDA certifications required. It is hot tedious work and the parts MUST be perfect or you go to jail and will be  sued into oblivion. Just like 100 other jobs where failure is not an option.

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Here is what some of the damage is. This is after the junk went through the motor, some cam scuffing and junk sitting in the oil puddles.

IMG_1327-D.jpgN

 

 

 

Next is repolishing the crank and cans

IMG_1343-D.jpg

 

This is the starting point on the heads, the "hump" has been laid back for flow. 36cc 10:1 CR

IMG_1346-D.jpg

 

Here I am half through welding up the back of the hump. Welding cast aluminum is different, lots of floating silicon and old oil burned up so the weld looks puffy and ugly untill you cut the weld down and get to solid metal. You have to push the welding rod under the flotsam. 

 

IMG_1351-D.jpg

IMG_1351-D.jpg

 

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IMG_1359-D.jpg

 

This is checking the chamber volume so I do not have to cut all the weld puddle out. I want 30cc chambers and 12:1 CR.

 

IMG_1361-D.jpg

 

This is the rough finish, I will clean up the head surface to 400 grit and relap the valves while the heads are off.

 

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Looking good!

 

I will add, the air dam purpose is to keep any swirl from re-entering the open valve and to direct the swirl to the cylinder bottom. There really isnt any performance gain removing it on the pi head. Possibly some to the npi head cause of its short side radius if not max ported. Max porting the npi means taking the floor out.....unlike any other head out there. Normally take the roof out, but only because of how the shot enters the valve.

 

Our 2v heads and dodge 2v heads like the 4.7l are the only heads I have found that are straight shot intake ports with non interference valves. Meaning the valve tulip is in line with the port. The incoming shot is as straight as it could be, not using the whole 360° of the valve like nearly 99% of all other heads. So, you can see of the air dams importance. When the swirl comes around, it wont re enter the valve.

 

 

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As for the welding of cast aluminum, you have not idea of the mixture used or the silicon content from year to year so filler rod 4043 is the standard place to start. I used 1/16 DIA. rod 36" inches long which is too thin for this job BUT.. I have 8 chambers to weld and I cc'ed the chamber part way through to see how much to fill in. The thin rod gives an easy way to see how much you have added to each chamber by how much rod is left over after each chamber so if the weld is a little different  each time the same amount of cc'a was added.

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And this is all being done with a Tig machine, correct? What machine do you have?

 

 

Sorry for so many questions, this is just very interesting to me as I will eventually be doing the same thing.

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IMG_1362-D.jpg

 

This is my main welding corner. The big blue Miller is a Syncrowave 351 with all the bells and whistles that my wife got me for an anniversary present back in '94, still perfect and an analog beast that NEVER fails. It is for sale at 6k. I do not do big platen welding anymore and it actually has the best low end around made by OTC the Jap company. I made lots of 1 second welds at 1 amp for 65.00 each which is the reason I never got rid of the unit, too easy for everyone to use at work.

The small unit is a new HTP I got for my last job because it is cheap and they answer the phone on weekends when they break. The boss was cheap and I think all in was 2500?, they are made in Italy, not bad and what I used for this head job because I have not done any aluminum with it and I wanted the practice so I know how it runs, duty cycle, how hot it gets, how noisy, what the arc is like. It is a inverter machine with solid state boards that will blow up like all SS machines do compared to the Miller that might kill a relay but has been perfect for 23 years.

This head welding is easy to do with a MIG wire unit but it is going to have to be a 220 volt unit to get enough heat and pre heating is a must with MIG. The weld will be ugly on top but clean underneth because the wire pushes through the flotsam. I have repaired several broken transmission cases with MIG with perfect results, just weld and cut down, weld and cut down, repeat, comes out nice, strong, good looking but it is an ugly process.

I do not have a preference any more for one brand or another, I use to like Miller but all brands are multi national junk now with boards made in the lowest cost 3 world country so the OEM has the parts cheap but low quality controll. So service is the deciding factor and not ripping you off on parts price and Miller has nose bleed pricing. I have had welders from Finland to Japan and end up selling them after a job is over.  GTAW,GMAW, Laser to plasma welding I have had some trick toys for work but they all work good on new production manufacturing BUT... repair is a whole nother animal. Usually you have 1 shot on the repair and can only guess at what it is made out of, lots of spark testing to get close. Which is why you should not worry about what it looks like too much till your done and cut down for looks. 

I love Jody at "Welding tips and Tricks.com" and that is the place to learn but the reality of maintenance welding on embedded oil in a 20 year old cast head is not going to be pretty little "stack of dimes" type of bead compared to your turbo intercooler. You just have to let all the junk float to the top of the puddle and cut the crap way later then you have some better material to make pretty welds on.

 

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After doing the rough cut down I mark out the areas that need more fill in.

IMG_1363-D.jpg

 

Then the fill in is much nicer welding because all the contaminates have been cut out.

IMG_1364-D.jpg

 

SAY AHHH... this is why all the effort, that is 43mm of intake port, stock is 39mm.

IMG_1365-D.jpg

I re-lapped all the valves and  I found a bent valve???? I put it on the lathe and straightened it out, not easy, the intake valves are hard.

IMG_1366-D.jpg

The wife is getting jealous of all the time sent here and on the car. She says " check out my potatoes."

 

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What, the wife scare everyone away, she good at that. Got the car running good and smooth, took extra time to work on the exhaust today because of the crappy job I payied for, only half way done so far. When I started the engine the power steering system was full of air and made horrendous noise but the motor was running smooth in the background driving me nuts till I moved the steering wheel and the chatter calmed down.  I do not have compression numbers yet, my MAC gauge started to give false readings after 40 years, JUNK.

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Nope, she didn't scare anyone off. 

 

You got that thing put back together quick! Do you happen to have any pictures of the finished chambers? I'm still amazed at how fast you did that as if it were no big deal and all the machinists around here will NOT weld chambers. 

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Too late. Done and done, nows the fun... I know you have trepidation about welding the chamber. One secret is a bar of soap! You must coat your carbide porting tools every 10 seconds or they will clog up and this job will take forever.That and a cheap 50 cc burette to check the chamber size so you know where you are in CR. 

http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

This is the site I use for CR because it is easy to use in metric and 2 or 3 cc difference between cylinders is not going to show much difference in CR, so do not go overkill trying to match things up. 

I was at 10.85 and upped it to 12.0 and that required a reduction of 6 cc's and the pic shows how much I had to weld in, the whole back side of the chamber. I will have static test as soon as I get my new compression tester...

The pic shows the fill in texture rough in and my finish work was just a double cut round end burr run over the surface that leaves a heavy stippled surface. I used to go crazy with sanding bobs polishing and making everything look pretty but it makes no real difference and now the pro's do everything like the surface of a golf ball, much faster and all the crazy work is only needed at John Force levels of power. I was surprised how fast the chambers turn cruddy. I did not post pics because I am tired of flame wars because someone read  something somewhere and it must be right. Look up my rant on chamber shape and port design on the other site. All the shaping from Ford is based on OLD pintle injectors types at the time and directing all the gas to the back of the intake valve to cool it and then trying to get the fuel back into suspension with "swirl" or "tumble" type of chamber shapes. Poor designs done for cheap beancounters to get the heat down and lower compression so they could use the smallest cheapest radiator possible to save 10.00 per car, it does add up. How do I know? My first boss at a real job was a senior VP at Ford the had retired from all the BS and he explained to me how to look elsewhere for the design answers, it all comes down to "commonality of parts"  look at the "gas tube" slot on all the heads intake runners putting LIQUID right to the back side of the valve. Now we have the latest 6 pintle design from Bosch and the "slot" is the first thing that gets re shaped by all the head maker's,  same thing with the "hump", I just made it bigger and filled in the back side over behind the plug and tapered both sides down, carved out the junk contamination, stippled the surface and done. This is why you need the CR calculator and to cc the rough in to see if you have added enough weld in, it is easier to cut out and shape than to add more after you did a pretty polish job and find out the CR only went up .2, I was surprised to need to add 6 cc's, I had decked the heads .070 and have big quench pads already.

  I want to thank you and Gary for your help through all of this over the last 18 months, enjoy your cool new pistons.

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2 hours ago, OLD H2S said:

Too late. Done and done, nows the fun... I know you have trepidation about welding the chamber. One secret is a bar of soap! You must coat your carbide porting tools every 10 seconds or they will clog up and this job will take forever.That and a cheap 50 cc burette to check the chamber size so you know where you are in CR. 

http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

This is the site I use for CR because it is easy to use in metric and 2 or 3 cc difference between cylinders is not going to show much difference in CR, so do not go overkill trying to match things up. 

I was at 10.85 and upped it to 12.0 and that required a reduction of 6 cc's and the pic shows how much I had to weld in, the whole back side of the chamber. I will have static test as soon as I get my new compression tester...

The pic shows the fill in texture rough in and my finish work was just a double cut round end burr run over the surface that leaves a heavy stippled surface. I used to go crazy with sanding bobs polishing and making everything look pretty but it makes no real difference and now the pro's do everything like the surface of a golf ball, much faster and all the crazy work is only needed at John Force levels of power. I was surprised how fast the chambers turn cruddy. I did not post pics because I am tired of flame wars because someone read  something somewhere and it must be right. Look up my rant on chamber shape and port design on the other site. All the shaping from Ford is based on OLD pintle injectors types at the time and directing all the gas to the back of the intake valve to cool it and then trying to get the fuel back into suspension with "swirl" or "tumble" type of chamber shapes. Poor designs done for cheap beancounters to get the heat down and lower compression so they could use the smallest cheapest radiator possible to save 10.00 per car, it does add up. How do I know? My first boss at a real job was a senior VP at Ford the had retired from all the BS and he explained to me how to look elsewhere for the design answers, it all comes down to "commonality of parts"  look at the "gas tube" slot on all the heads intake runners putting LIQUID right to the back side of the valve. Now we have the latest 6 pintle design from Bosch and the "slot" is the first thing that gets re shaped by all the head maker's,  same thing with the "hump", I just made it bigger and filled in the back side over behind the plug and tapered both sides down, carved out the junk contamination, stippled the surface and done. This is why you need the CR calculator and to cc the rough in to see if you have added enough weld in, it is easier to cut out and shape than to add more after you did a pretty polish job and find out the CR only went up .2, I was surprised to need to add 6 cc's, I had decked the heads .070 and have big quench pads already.

  I want to thank you and Gary for your help through all of this over the last 18 months, enjoy your cool new pistons.

Gary is a great dude, he and I talk frequently. I dont know how Ive helped but I have definitely watched all of your work and have been nothing short of amazed at the attention to detail and your abilities. Ive also sat, in awe, staring at these heads that you have concocted and will be following suit in the near future. Im definitely going to check out that other thread because I dont remember seeing it.

 

As for the pistons, I could ask for a better set. They are installed and being run currently. They are very quiet and diamond sure had their stuff together when they built them. They all weighed the same and had the exact same piston to wall clearance. They are perfect, thank you.

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Thanks ,I hope everyone is in awe of all the mistakes over the last 18 months. This setup is from mis ordering parts that are not returnable. I get hung up on the minutia and make mistakes. I was not upset about the timing gear mistake because now I HAD to do a disassembly and check my work and threw in some new bearings, up the compression. No big deal, my friend rebuilds equipment that goes on offshore oil rigs, they run in the new stuff then do a tear down and replace bearings and seals and secure and seal everything with FelPro Tight. That stuff is 45.00 a tube but it works perfect every time, NO Leaks, and the new tear down is cheaper than a failure at sea with the excuse "But it is new" and a 1000 mile helicopter ride for a 5.00 seal failure.  My motor is much smoother now with all parts double polished, I do the same thing when I build a custom 1911 .45 for someone, they take me 40 hours to do, then after 500 rounds I take them apart and do them again, then you have a real custom pistol that Les Bear can not match.

The R&R took me 5 days to do and would have been 4 if I did walk around in circles yelling "Who Shit My Pants".... One of the hardest things in life is to quit making excuses, and we never get it right the first time.

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