The Chronicles of 95riosnake's OCD Machine

[Psychorugby]

The bezels look fantastic!  I wish my interior was black because I would totally pick up a set but I honestly think carbon fiber would look dumb against tan...

 

I'm having the same issue.

[95riosnake]

Where did you get the larger rubber mount?  The one on the bottom in the up close pic?

 

That rubber mount is part of the Accuair Exo compressor brackets I bought. I don't remember exactly where I bought them but here's a link. They might be had for a better deal elsewhere possibly

 

http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/-p-150935186.html?utm_source=adwordsfroogle&utm_campaign=adwordsfroogle&utm_content=339956&ph=1&utm_cmp=FullFeed&gclid=CjwKEAiAx4anBRDz6JLYjMDxoQYSJAA4loRmyE_8mZLIS1vs-NUjLdBAOJx5WPJ5v406p_-sOpdy3BoC-Ejw_wcB

 

The bezels look fantastic!  I wish my interior was black because I would totally pick up a set but I honestly think carbon fiber would look dumb against tan...

 

 

Also, fwiw, I've bought the interior paint from LateModelRestoration in the past if CJPP doesn't carry it any longer.  Would be nice to support a forum sponsor, though.

 

Thanks! And yea, the tan is tough because you have to at least add a bunch of black to tie the carbon in visually.

 

Yea I believe LRS does, I know for a fact I bought it from CJPP because I remember talking with @Steve@CJPP about it before ordering. Maybe they no longer carry it? Not sure.

 

I'm having the same issue.

 

Yea you guys with the tan interior have it rough, it's hard to get anything to jive color-wise, and a full conversion to black is both expensive and time consuming.

[Psychorugby]

Yea you guys with the tan interior have it rough, it's hard to get anything to jive color-wise, and a full conversion to black is both expensive and time consuming.

 

I almost did the conversion... but had a brand new tan top already.

[Steve@CJPP]

Yeah we no longer carry it, I just found this out myself after looking into it for you.

[Carbon Driven]

Great work as always! 

(I may have to steal a picture or 2)
 

While I wait for the quarter to show up, among a few other things, I decided to relax a bit and concentrate on finishing up a couple final touches on the @Carbon Driven parts.

 

First up was the double din radio bezel. I still needed to attach the vent assembly, so that got the nod for the first task of the day. I had a spare stock bezel on the shelves so I pried the vent assembly out of it to use in the carbon piece. 

 

 

The front face of the vent frame was scuffed with 80 grit to prep for some epoxy.

 

 

The back of the radio bezel got the same treatment

 

 

Then some 30 min epoxy was applied generously to mate the two

 

 

It was allowed to cure overnight and I popped the vents in this morning.

 

 

Installed it and it fits nice and snug. Next up was a little detail work on the shifter bezel. (camera settings FTL in this pic, lol)

 

 

 

Rob from Carbon Driven explained very clear reasons why he couldn't pull off the textured edge you find around the edge of the factory bezel. It looks fine as-is but a little extra effort really will make it look perfect. I drew a line on the masking to line up with the line coming down from the upper dash, then continued it down to mimic the factory bezel's line. (got a little sloppy in a couple spots lol)

 

 

Trimmed away the area to be painted, then masked everything else (the edge of the masking may look jagged but that's just the sharpie line)

 

 

I teared up a bit when I started sanding that beautiful carbon finish, but alas, it was necessary lol. Prepped with 220 grit followed by 400 grit

 

 

Light coat of primer

 

 

Then 3 light coats of black interior paint from CJPP (can't seem to find it on the CJPP site anymore )

 

 

Finished product!

 

 

And installed (once again, camera settings FTL but it's hard to see anything in this interior otherwise lol) I still have to figure out what to do with the cigarette lighter hole. I'll likely make a little insert to hold the USB plug for the head unit.

 

 

 

I also ordered some 4mm stainless allen bolts and nylock nuts to mount the compressors, which showed up.

 

 

Two rubber mounts bolted together should do the trick in keeping these compressors a bit quieter when they kick on. I need to pick up some fender washers for the tops still.

 

 

I also sat and stared at the whole tank setup while holding the leader hoses in different positions and finalized my plan. Ordered a mess of fittings, so when those come in I'll show you guys what I came up with.

 

This probably doesn't seem like much progress but it felt good to tick off a couple more boxes. The fact that it was frigid cold didn't help. It was 4° outside today, and even with the heater running full blast I could only get the garage up to around 42°. Just not comfortable at all, and warming paint cans and bezels in front of the heater, then spraying paint huddled in front of it gets old quick lol.

[95riosnake]

Great work as always! 

(I may have to steal a picture or 2)

 

 

Feel free Rob, could serve as instructional pics for your customers

[SublimeRT]

Lookin good Dan. The center stack looks great. I didn't realize how much CF you had in the interior; I think the modified clock pod will tie in well with a CF finish.

[95riosnake]

Lookin good Dan. The center stack looks great. I didn't realize how much CF you had in the interior; I think the modified clock pod will tie in well with a CF finish.

Thanks Blaise, yea I ended up going with a carbon wrap on the dash pod for the E3 display, it's already underway and I should have it back pretty soon!

[SublimeRT]

Thanks Blaise, yea I ended up going with a carbon wrap on the dash pod for the E3 display, it's already underway and I should have it back pretty soon!

Good deal. Do you know when the quarter will be arriving?

[95riosnake]

Good deal. Do you know when the quarter will be arriving?

 

Ugh, that's yet another thing to add to the list of pains in my ass. So I had the guy lined up to cut the quarter off a rust free Texas 96 cobra that he was fully parting out. He was supposed to cut it off a couple days later and once he had it off I'd paypal him and he'd get it shipped out. Well before those two days passed, somebody contacted him and wanted to buy the whole shell. Fair enough, I can understand wanting to sell the shell rather than cut it up. He tells me his buddy also parts out mustangs and has a couple rust free SN's and he should be able to help me out. He called him and told him our deal, the friend said ok and he gave the friend my number. I've texted the original guy a few times over the past week or so and said I still hadn't heard from the friend... he said he'd nudge him and get on his case about it but at this point I'm no longer confident about sending money to the friend. So, I'm back to looking for someone willing to sell me part of a quarter panel (because shipping the entire quarter equals freight shipping, which equals $$$$). This is the section we had settled on for $250 plus around $50 shipping. This would give me the freedom to cut it how I see fit once I start taking the existing panel off the car. Buying a quarter off a car locally isn't really an option because just about any vehicle over 10 years old here is rusted to pieces unless the owner took exceptional care of it.

 

[Psychorugby]

How far of a drive is Cincinnati for you?  I'm going to guess to far, but I have a U Pull and Pay there that I could see if you could cut the panel off something... they currently have 2 SN95s there.  A quarter panel is $60 plus $5 core, and I think I get a 50% discount there.

 

http://www.upullandpay.com/cincinnati/search-inventory

[95riosnake]

How far of a drive is Cincinnati for you?  I'm going to guess to far, but I have a U Pull and Pay there that I could see if you could cut the panel off something... they currently have 2 SN95s there.  A quarter panel is $60 plus $5 core, and I think I get a 50% discount there.

 

http://www.upullandpay.com/cincinnati/search-inventory

 

Cincinatti isn't too far, about 1h 15m drive. The problem is that it's been hovering in the mid teens the past couple weeks, and the thought of trying to cut a quarter off a car outside sounds like one of the circles of hell, lol. That and I don't have any cordless cutting tools that would get the job done, all of my grinders and cutting tools are corded. There's also the issue that being from Ohio the quarter isn't likely rust free

[Psychorugby]

Cincinatti isn't too far, about 1h 15m drive. The problem is that it's been hovering in the mid teens the past couple weeks, and the thought of trying to cut a quarter off a car outside sounds like one of the circles of hell, lol. That and I don't have any cordless cutting tools that would get the job done, all of my grinders and cutting tools are corded.

 

Cold weather aside, I just emailed them to see if they had power poles out in the yard (some facilities do) or if they have cordless tools you could use.  I fix enough of their bullshit mistakes that she should be offering to have one of her guys go cut it off for me.

[95riosnake]

Now that may be an option, lol. I'd have to at least see pics of the condition of the panel first I suppose. It might not be worth them cutting it off for me. But who knows, maybe it's in good shape.

[Steve@CJPP]

maybe?

 

http://www.mpsautosalvage.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=4710

[SublimeRT]

Well shoot, that stinks.  Yeah, I definitely wouldn't trust the guy's friend enough to be sending him some money though.  I've been thinking about your situation here.  I know you said you wanted to replace from the scoop up to the body line, back to the fuel door, so you have a fresh lip to work with.  But if there weren't that problem area behind the scoop, would you be happy with what you've achieved with the roller so far?  Do you have enough clearance or can you get enough clearance with some more rolling?  Without having to cut anything? 

[95riosnake]

maybe?

 

http://www.mpsautosalvage.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=4710

 

Chris might have me covered on a quarter from FL on the cheap, crossing my fingers

 

Well shoot, that stinks.  Yeah, I definitely wouldn't trust the guy's friend enough to be sending him some money though.  I've been thinking about your situation here.  I know you said you wanted to replace from the scoop up to the body line, back to the fuel door, so you have a fresh lip to work with.  But if there weren't that problem area behind the scoop, would you be happy with what you've achieved with the roller so far?  Do you have enough clearance or can you get enough clearance with some more rolling?  Without having to cut anything? 

 

It was getting there, but not quite yet. I think once I weld in the new quarter, for round 2 I'll cut the wheel tub behind the quarter to let the quarter come out easier without creating a "flare" shape as I pull the lip, if that makes sense. Then once I get it where I want it, I'll weld in metal to close up the gap in the wheel tub.

[95opal]

Dan if you need a panel let me know im sure my guy has a few dozen laying around

[Zach]

If all falls through we have about 7 rust free sn95 shells at the shop too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[95riosnake]

Looks like my man @Psychorugby is doing me a solid, he has a quarter lined up from FL and is gonna get it to me. I owe him big time for lending his time, thanks Chris!

[Psychorugby]

Looks like my man @Psychorugby is doing me a solid, he has a quarter lined up from FL and is gonna get it to me. I owe him big time for lending his time, thanks Chris!

 

Don't thank me yet.  I haven't done shit other than call the yard to see if they had a cordless reciprocating saw lol.  If I get a day to drive over there, I'll try to work the five finger discount.

[SublimeRT]

Chris might have me covered on a quarter from FL on the cheap, crossing my fingers

It was getting there, but not quite yet. I think once I weld in the new quarter, for round 2 I'll cut the wheel tub behind the quarter to let the quarter come out easier without creating a "flare" shape as I pull the lip, if that makes sense. Then once I get it where I want it, I'll weld in metal to close up the gap in the wheel tub.

Yeah that makes sense. If you were happy with the rolling work so far and could get it 100% where you wanted it with a little bit more rolling, I was going to suggest just replacing that damaged area behind the scoop. If you want to redo the wheel arch and all that, then I was wondering last night if you should just get a whole factory quarter at this point rather than butt-welding in such a large section. It would be preferable to get it cut off the donor car just outside of the factory spot welded seams, so that you can be the one to actually drill out and separate the spot welds yourself. From what I've seen when factory panels get removed at the spot welds from junk yards and such, the welds themselves are usually drilled out with a 3/8" spot weld cutter or more likely, a drill bit, then if the panel is still holding on a bit the edge usually gets all bent up and stuff from prying tools to get it loose. I know a lot of people say just straighten the edge back out and use the 3/8" holes for your plug weld holes to reinstall the new panel but in my opinion 3/8" is too big for that thin metal. I think 5/16" is much better and generally what I use for sheetmetal work. Sometimes slightly smaller, but never bigger.

It might be more intimidating but really either way is a good bit of work. And actually I think butt-welding in large panels is more work. Then you have to deal with distortion from the welding process and with something like the quarter, access to the back is very limited to do any hammer/dolly work to straighten it back out. Also the MIG welds themselves are a little harder and can be difficult to work with. A skim coat of filler will probably still be needed to truly level it out; that might not be acceptable for you after what you just went through. Though the amount of filler would be much less than what you just dug out of that spot and won't be covering a shoddy repair.

They are both acceptable methods when done correctly, and there are pros and cons to each. Forgive me if I'm telling you stuff you already know, I'm just trying to give some insight from my own experiences. And I'm stuck on the couch bored because in my infinite wisdom I removed my safety goggles while cutting/grinding some metal because they were fogging up, and got a shard of metal in my eye. The doctor drilled it out and I'm sitting here with an eye patch. So don't forget proper safety gear when you get started with it all.

[Tony]

I was going to suggest just replacing that damaged area behind the scoop.

 

The doctor drilled it out and I'm sitting here with an eye patch.

i was going to say that too....wonder if you could just get a shop to weld in a patch panel there...maybe even a couple if you found some other rust. idk but yea man it will cost a chunk to get a quarter shipped truck freight :/

oh and to the eye drill....

[SublimeRT]

That gif is cracking me up. Drilled it a few days ago and again today to get some rust that was still there. They numbed my eye with some drops so it didn't hurt, but the first time it got to me mentally and I blacked out lol. Hung in there today though. Should heal fine with no affect on my vision.

[Tony]

That gif is cracking me up. Drilled it a few days ago and again today to get some rust that was still there. They numbed my eye with some drops so it didn't hurt, but the first time it got to me mentally and I blacked out lol. Hung in there today though. Should heal fine with no affect on my vision.

i almost blacked out just reading it lol

[95riosnake]

Yeah that makes sense. If you were happy with the rolling work so far and could get it 100% where you wanted it with a little bit more rolling, I was going to suggest just replacing that damaged area behind the scoop. If you want to redo the wheel arch and all that, then I was wondering last night if you should just get a whole factory quarter at this point rather than butt-welding in such a large section. It would be preferable to get it cut off the donor car just outside of the factory spot welded seams, so that you can be the one to actually drill out and separate the spot welds yourself. From what I've seen when factory panels get removed at the spot welds from junk yards and such, the welds themselves are usually drilled out with a 3/8" spot weld cutter or more likely, a drill bit, then if the panel is still holding on a bit the edge usually gets all bent up and stuff from prying tools to get it loose. I know a lot of people say just straighten the edge back out and use the 3/8" holes for your plug weld holes to reinstall the new panel but in my opinion 3/8" is too big for that thin metal. I think 5/16" is much better and generally what I use for sheetmetal work. Sometimes slightly smaller, but never bigger.

It might be more intimidating but really either way is a good bit of work. And actually I think butt-welding in large panels is more work. Then you have to deal with distortion from the welding process and with something like the quarter, access to the back is very limited to do any hammer/dolly work to straighten it back out. Also the MIG welds themselves are a little harder and can be difficult to work with. A skim coat of filler will probably still be needed to truly level it out; that might not be acceptable for you after what you just went through. Though the amount of filler would be much less than what you just dug out of that spot and won't be covering a shoddy repair.

They are both acceptable methods when done correctly, and there are pros and cons to each. Forgive me if I'm telling you stuff you already know, I'm just trying to give some insight from my own experiences. And I'm stuck on the couch bored because in my infinite wisdom I removed my safety goggles while cutting/grinding some metal because they were fogging up, and got a shard of metal in my eye. The doctor drilled it out and I'm sitting here with an eye patch. So don't forget proper safety gear when you get started with it all.

 

Yea I've just read into replacing the whole quarter and it sounds like a ton of work, mainly the spot welds, especially in the trunk jamb. I also would prefer to weld in a patch because I'm worried about messing up panel gaps, and that's something that would make me lose my mind if I couldn't get it right. I'm not sure if I'll end up replacing quite as large of a section as shown, I'll have to see how it pans out. At minimum I want an entirely new lip and the whole side scoop area, we'll see how far beyond that is needed. I'm fully expecting to use a little filler, that's part of body work but the thickness I just dug off the car was waaaaay thicker than it should ever be. I think what bothered me is the filler was slathered over a very crude repair, and actually had rust underneath. There's no place for that on my car. Ever since I've owned the it, there's been a crack in the paint behind the side scoop, now I know why lol. I'm actually considering flanging the remaining original panel and punching the new panel for spot welds, then going back around to slowly and gradually tack in the seam. There's also the option of panel bonding in the new panel after flanging the original, but that doesn't seem like my style.

 

Sorry to hear about the eye, I know I'm not the only one who got a little light headed even thinking about that!

 

i was going to say that too....wonder if you could just get a shop to weld in a patch panel there...maybe even a couple if you found some other rust. idk but yea man it will cost a chunk to get a quarter shipped truck freight :/

oh and to the eye drill....

 

Having a shop do it at this point isn't much of an option since the car can't leave the garage, even if it could, I wouldn't even consider driving it on all the salt they have dumped everywhere. I get stressed out even thinking about it lol. And that gif is 100% spot on lol.

 

That gif is cracking me up. Drilled it a few days ago and again today to get some rust that was still there. They numbed my eye with some drops so it didn't hurt, but the first time it got to me mentally and I blacked out lol. Hung in there today though. Should heal fine with no affect on my vision.

 

ughghghghggghhh that's rough.

[Tony]

aw you're doing the body work yourself dan?

[95riosnake]

aw you're doing the body work yourself dan?

 

Yea I really can't swing paying someone to do it, it's gonna be enough to pay someone to paint it all when I'm done lol

[Tony]

Yea I really can't swing paying someone to do it, it's gonna be enough to pay someone to paint it all when I'm done lol

man you're ballsy lol. but i guess you ARE dan so i'm sure it'll come out perfect as i know you won't quit till it is lol.

[95riosnake]

man you're ballsy lol. but i guess you ARE dan so i'm sure it'll come out perfect as i know you won't quit till it is lol.

 

Haha thanks, I can't say I'm doing it by choice though. I'm doing it because I'm done relying on people to do anything right, and I really would rather put the money toward other things lol.

[Tony]

Haha thanks, I can't say I'm doing it by choice though. I'm doing it because I'm done relying on people to do anything right, and I really would rather put the money toward other things lol.

as psycho as i am about paint and body work being done perfectly...you'd think i knew how to do it myself...but naaahhh....i just keep dropping cars off to body shops and pace my floors for a month stressing about the outcome

i like your way batter ftl!!

[ttocs]

I learned to shape/sand pieces from my car audio days when we were making custom panels and it transferred pretty easily to the body work I have done.  I just have too many little things I wanted to do to the car to go to a shop and leave a list of everything to smoothed/shaved and tucked and not expect some huge bill at the end.

[SublimeRT]

Yea I've just read into replacing the whole quarter and it sounds like a ton of work, mainly the spot welds, especially in the trunk jamb. I also would prefer to weld in a patch because I'm worried about messing up panel gaps, and that's something that would make me lose my mind if I couldn't get it right. I'm not sure if I'll end up replacing quite as large of a section as shown, I'll have to see how it pans out. At minimum I want an entirely new lip and the whole side scoop area, we'll see how far beyond that is needed. I'm fully expecting to use a little filler, that's part of body work but the thickness I just dug off the car was waaaaay thicker than it should ever be. I think what bothered me is the filler was slathered over a very crude repair, and actually had rust underneath. There's no place for that on my car. Ever since I've owned the it, there's been a crack in the paint behind the side scoop, now I know why lol. I'm actually considering flanging the remaining original panel and punching the new panel for spot welds, then going back around to slowly and gradually tack in the seam. There's also the option of panel bonding in the new panel after flanging the original, but that doesn't seem like my style.

 

Sorry to hear about the eye, I know I'm not the only one who got a little light headed even thinking about that!

 

 

Having a shop do it at this point isn't much of an option since the car can't leave the garage, even if it could, I wouldn't even consider driving it on all the salt they have dumped everywhere. I get stressed out even thinking about it lol. And that gif is 100% spot on lol.

 

 

ughghghghggghhh that's rough.

 

 

Hahaha, thanks about the eye.  It's doing good though. 

 

I understand your concerns with the full panel replacement and messing with the gaps.  Like I said, pros and cons to both methods and it is always kind of a shame to mess with good factory gaps.  As far as the rust underneath the filler, here is my take on it.  It looks like there was filler applied directly over bare metal.  I bet at the time of the repair the metal was clean, but it was probably done in a collision shop where they do not take the time to epoxy prime the metal beforehand, let it cure, and then proceed with the filler work.  You say there was a crack in the paint behind the scoop.  Given the condition of that crack along the wheel arch, I think moisture got in from the crack along the wheel arch from the backside, the filler absorbed the moisture, swelled, cracked the paint, and the base metal rusted.  Or could have been a small chip from the outside down to the filler and the same thing happened, but I think scenario 1 is more likely.  Bottom line though is the metal wasn't protected.  The whole filler over bare metal vs epoxy prime first then filler seems to cause a lot of debate, but to me it just makes sense to epoxy prime first and is also the recommended method by ICAR and luxury car manufacturers. 

 

Flanging the original panel is alluring, but be aware the resulting lap joint is a good place for rust to start forming due to the difficulties of getting any corrosion protection in the joint.  Fully welding the outside seam, epoxy priming both sides, and seam sealing the rear are about as good as it gets.  Some people even weld the inside seam as much as they can but that's a lot of extra effort and potential warpage for questionable gains.  Weld-thru primers come up a lot too, but experiment with them and see how you feel.  I haven't had good luck with any of them.  If you do flange it I would only do a few plug welds or just avoid them altogether; the fully welded seam should be sufficient.  The plug welds can add a lot of heat and end up with distortion and with the lap joint it will be really difficult to straighen it out since it's twice as thick.

 

I'm not sure about the panel bonding.  I've heard good things about it, but I don't see the need if one has a welder unless it's the manufacturer's recommended repair method. 

[stprorolla49]

Jeeeez this brings back some bad memories...this is the story of when Michael dragged home a whole 1/4 of a mustang...

If possible, I'd maybe suggest getting more quarter than you need and trimming yourself. I know how anal you are, much like myself, and being able to trim the panel to perfection is worth the few extra bucks. I think I paid $200 for what you in the pickup above.

Quarterpanel aside, this car makes me want to get another 94-98. Well done sir, what a masterpiece.

[ttocs]

That panel bonding adhesive is no joke but if ya have a welder I would go that way as much as possible.  The bonding adhesive has a time/place and you might still find it handy in a couple of spots for this job though if not later.  I just had it out last week before it got cold to stiffen up the lower portion of the front fenders I had to modify.  The side exhaust skirt was a little loose up at the very front so I cleaned out the joint and got as much as I could in between them and clamped it up over night.  The next morning the side skirt was solidly bonded to the remaining quarter panel but the panel was still a little loose(now with the skirt).  I mean just barely, you had to lean on it pretty good to make it move but it still bugged me so I welded in an extra brace to stiffen it up and now everything is rock solid.  I could not have secured the skirt with out some kind of epoxy but could not have stiffened up the whole thing with out the brace so like I said each one has a time and a place and I am glad they are both tools I have in my box now.

[95riosnake]

Hahaha, thanks about the eye.  It's doing good though. 

 

I understand your concerns with the full panel replacement and messing with the gaps.  Like I said, pros and cons to both methods and it is always kind of a shame to mess with good factory gaps.  As far as the rust underneath the filler, here is my take on it.  It looks like there was filler applied directly over bare metal.  I bet at the time of the repair the metal was clean, but it was probably done in a collision shop where they do not take the time to epoxy prime the metal beforehand, let it cure, and then proceed with the filler work.  You say there was a crack in the paint behind the scoop.  Given the condition of that crack along the wheel arch, I think moisture got in from the crack along the wheel arch from the backside, the filler absorbed the moisture, swelled, cracked the paint, and the base metal rusted.  Or could have been a small chip from the outside down to the filler and the same thing happened, but I think scenario 1 is more likely.  Bottom line though is the metal wasn't protected.  The whole filler over bare metal vs epoxy prime first then filler seems to cause a lot of debate, but to me it just makes sense to epoxy prime first and is also the recommended method by ICAR and luxury car manufacturers. 

 

Flanging the original panel is alluring, but be aware the resulting lap joint is a good place for rust to start forming due to the difficulties of getting any corrosion protection in the joint.  Fully welding the outside seam, epoxy priming both sides, and seam sealing the rear are about as good as it gets.  Some people even weld the inside seam as much as they can but that's a lot of extra effort and potential warpage for questionable gains.  Weld-thru primers come up a lot too, but experiment with them and see how you feel.  I haven't had good luck with any of them.  If you do flange it I would only do a few plug welds or just avoid them altogether; the fully welded seam should be sufficient.  The plug welds can add a lot of heat and end up with distortion and with the lap joint it will be really difficult to straighen it out since it's twice as thick.

 

I'm not sure about the panel bonding.  I've heard good things about it, but I don't see the need if one has a welder unless it's the manufacturer's recommended repair method.

 

You're probably right about how the rust occurred, the lip is in bad shape so I can definitely see water making its way in through it. Good point about the flanging, I hadn't thought about the rust issue. I think I'll just go the butt weld route and take my time. As you all might have noticed, I'm pretty patient lol. The panel bonding adhesive wasn't really a serious consideration, but more so a brief thought when brainstorming ways around heat warping the quarter. It all boils down to me thinking the concept of gluing metal together is just weird, and like you said when I have a welder it's kind of unnecessary to use adhesive. I do have a big tube of seam sealer that I plan to apply to as much of the back side of the seam as possible.

 

What are your thoughts on these welding clamps to properly gap the butt weld joint?

 

http://www.eastwood.com/intergrip-panel-clamps-set-of-4.html

 

Jeeeez this brings back some bad memories...this is the story of when Michael dragged home a whole 1/4 of a mustang...

 

If possible, I'd maybe suggest getting more quarter than you need and trimming yourself. I know how anal you are, much like myself, and being able to trim the panel to perfection is worth the few extra bucks. I think I paid $200 for what you in the pickup above.

Quarterpanel aside, this car makes me want to get another 94-98. Well done sir, what a masterpiece.

 

I forgot you did that to your old car, good to see not everyone replaces the entire quarter lol. I'm definitely getting more of the panel than I need, then I can pick and choose where to cut. And thanks man, doing my best to keep stepping things up!

 

That panel bonding adhesive is no joke but if ya have a welder I would go that way as much as possible.  The bonding adhesive has a time/place and you might still find it handy in a couple of spots for this job though if not later.  I just had it out last week before it got cold to stiffen up the lower portion of the front fenders I had to modify.  The side exhaust skirt was a little loose up at the very front so I cleaned out the joint and got as much as I could in between them and clamped it up over night.  The next morning the side skirt was solidly bonded to the remaining quarter panel but the panel was still a little loose(now with the skirt).  I mean just barely, you had to lean on it pretty good to make it move but it still bugged me so I welded in an extra brace to stiffen it up and now everything is rock solid.  I could not have secured the skirt with out some kind of epoxy but could not have stiffened up the whole thing with out the brace so like I said each one has a time and a place and I am glad they are both tools I have in my box now.

 

Yea I'm gonna stick with welding. Like I said to Blaise, it was just a brief consideration to avoid warping from heat. I'm probably over thinking the heat issue though. And it's not like I have no welding experience. I think if I just take my time and spread out the tacks, skipping around and waiting for them to cool, I shouldn't have any issues.

[Sleeperstang1994]

body work blows my mind when I see it. the fact that you can cut that huge section of car and manage to line it up so that no one can tell amazes me! im looking forward to seeing this take shape!

[95riosnake]

body work blows my mind when I see it. the fact that you can cut that huge section of car and manage to line it up so that no one can tell amazes me! im looking forward to seeing this take shape!

 

I had a bit of practice on my first car (90 S10 blazer) welding in many patch panels because those trucks have a few common problem areas. I haven't done something this big before but I'm gonna take my time and be careful. Might be hard to use the welder with all my fingers crossed but we'll see how it goes lol.

[stprorolla49]

Might be time to pick up that little Everlast tig now, Dan! I just got a new CK torch for it and it makes a world of difference. Worth every penny!

[SublimeRT]

You're probably right about how the rust occurred, the lip is in bad shape so I can definitely see water making its way in through it. Good point about the flanging, I hadn't thought about the rust issue. I think I'll just go the butt weld route and take my time. As you all might have noticed, I'm pretty patient lol. The panel bonding adhesive wasn't really a serious consideration, but more so a brief thought when brainstorming ways around heat warping the quarter. It all boils down to me thinking the concept of gluing metal together is just weird, and like you said when I have a welder it's kind of unnecessary to use adhesive. I do have a big tube of seam sealer that I plan to apply to as much of the back side of the seam as possible.

What are your thoughts on these welding clamps to properly gap the butt weld joint?

http://www.eastwood.com/intergrip-panel-clamps-set-of-4.html

Yeah you are pretty patient. Patience is king, haha. If my patience starts to slip I go do something else for a while. Those clamps aren't too bad. I have a set of them that I use from time to time. As they come though, you're forced to use a .040" gap, which is fine sometimes, and also those square, straight pegs, which are also fine sometimes, aren't optimal for a panel with a lot of curvature to it. For those reasons I'd like to make some with curved, round pegs, and a thinner divider. If you look at them they are just square stock with a slit and hole, then a flat head screw with the sheet metal divider tacked to it, and then the peg, and all held together with the wing nut. Buy or make some and experiment and see what you think. One drawback with those is if you're working with a big panel it can be hard to get the panel in place and then get those clamps in place, but usually, like in your case, the patch could be mostly held in place with some auto body vise grips along the wheel arch, then you can work those clamps in place and work things around till it gets lined up. If your patch gets big enough I'd recommend using some clecos or sheet metal screws to consistently get the panel in the same spot every time during the fitment process and when setting the gaps for the butt weld as that is critical. If you stick with your original plan of from the scoop to the fuel door and up to the body line, I'd consider that "big enough".

But anyways with those clamps and the .040 gap, I will have to check but I'm going to guess the quarter is 20 or 22 gauge or so. The general recommendation is to have the gap the thickness of the metal and use .023 wire. .040 is a bit large IMO with metal that thin; I like things on the tighter side. I know we're talking thousandths of inches here but it really does make a big difference. Too big and it's going to get really easy for the weld to drop out with metal that thin. For a quarter on the Charger I recently did I thought there has to be a better way so I did some research first and came across a recommendation for butt-welding thin metal with a MIG from an expert metal shaper named Wray Schelin. He suggested a very tight gap, almost touching, chamfering the edges of both panels, using .035 wire and setting the machine on the hot side. I tried on some test pieces and it worked great, though I used .030 as I had a new roll and no .035. Excellent penetration, no blow outs, not even any key holes. Because of the tight gap though each tack needs to be planished and stretched back out with a hammer and dolly before proceeding, otherwise because of the shrinkage from welding the panels will touch and can make mountains. This shrinkage will occur no matter what method and is what causes the warpage but with a larger gap the risk of the panels hitting is lower. This shrinkage is why the area around a butt welded seam is a little valley, a little below the surrounding metal and is usually just brought level with a skim coat of filler. You might be familiar with this from the patches on your truck. Another thing for you to experiment with and see what works best for you.

If you use Wray's method the gap is so tight you probably won't even be able to fit those clamps in the gap. But the 1/8" sheet metal screws or clecos do a fine job of holding things in place. Either way you do it though you will probably not use any one method to hold the panel in place and hold it level. The auto body vise grips are handy, as are big magnets, and if you decide to use a traditional gap a tiny flat head screwdriver works excellent to make minute adjustments to make the panels level as you tack them in place. Using your left hand just stick the tip in the gap and lightly pry either way, check for flushness with your bare right hand, hold what you got, pick up the gun and tack it. Also if you decide to use a traditional gap a copper backing plate is a lifesaver at helping prevent blowouts and also acts as a heatsink which is good for warpage. Eastwood sells one with magnets on it that works pretty good. And any random chunk of copper will work really. Copper pipes, plates, etc. You can smash and bend them to fit what you're working with.

I'd still really like to try the traditional gapping method though still a bit on the tight side, with some of those clamps but with thinner dividers. The times I have used those things, I'd make my tacks and it'd try to shrink and pull the panels together but the clamps acted like spacers and helped prevent it. I'm thinking a traditional but still tight gap, one of those thinner clamps every few inches, a copper backer, not messing with chamfering, and thick wire on the hot side, might be a good combination. Who knows. More than one way to skin this cat.