the.greg Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Very good read in the posts by The Mk2, I'm mostly lost, but I appreciate you writing all that out. It makes much more sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Can you explain further on what you mean by he programed the CID counter wrong? The CBAZA Strategy utilizes a load sclaing somewhat like speed density. Because of that fact, the ECM needs to know the displacement of the engine to properly calculate its load. If the ECM thinks you have a 157 CI engine and you are pulling 1100 kg/m of airflow, your load would be damn near 165%. This image shows your tune vs the stock J4J1 (your ecm) value... then I also tossed in some figures from the ZA0 (95 Cobra R ECM).Look at Air - Engine Displacement... See anything wrong?And it has at times showed the start up and surge description you talked about before. Just a rough guess but if I was leaving 5* of total timing at WOT on the table along with other tweaks that can be made how much power was I leaving on the table considering it pulled 349 before when the chip was inBetween fueling, changing some basic values across the tune and putting some timing back into the car. I would like to keep your timing somewhat conservative and stay around 32° total timing. Once we get it on the track I can fiddle with adding some more timing in to see if you pick up anything. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you picked up 35 or so HP. Adding some timing to my car felt like I was using nitrous! The car got scary fast. Edited April 17, 2013 by The Mk2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallblocksn95 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Great info sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) The CBAZA Strategy utilizes a load sclaing somewhat like speed density. Because of that fact, the ECM needs to know the displacement of the engine to properly calculate its load. If the ECM thinks you have a 157 CI engine and you are pulling 1100 kg/m of airflow, your load would be damn near 165%. This image shows your tune vs the stock J4J1 (your ecm) value... then I also tossed in some figures from the ZA0 (95 Cobra R ECM).Look at Air - Engine Displacement... See anything wrong?Between fueling, changing some basic values across the tune and putting some timing back into the car. I would like to keep your timing somewhat conservative and stay around 32° total timing. Once we get it on the track I can fiddle with adding some more timing in to see if you pick up anything. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you picked up 35 or so HP. Adding some timing to my car felt like I was using nitrous! The car got scary fast.wow that's so ignorant, how the hell could he have programmed that so it was reading that I had 157 CID. It just baffles me that I pay $400 for a "custom tune" and $150 for a retune with different parts later on (switched to a TFSR intake and a different MAF before switching to my current intake ) and this is the results I get? The only thing he did from what I can see is adjust the timing so it was at a safe level and made' tweaks to the A/F ratio so it was also in the safe zone. Other then that he didn't do shit. Knowing there is potentially another 35 or so HP still there to be pulled out from this is reassuring. This combo from what Ive been told really should have no problems making it to 400 at the wheels. I might take it out later today b/c its going to be nice out, Id like to see how it drives and feels power wise w/ out the chip in it.Also before I start blasting this idiot on local message boards I wanted to make sure of a few things. All of the info you are pulling off this chip now was all from when the car had the TFSR intake, AFR 185 heads and shorty headers but being that the tune was so wacked from this combo is why it pulled a crappy 349 on the dyno with my current heads and long tubes and the rest in my sig correct? I believe you said before that you had told me that even though the parts are vastly improved it does not change how the chip should have been tuned from the start. Do I have that correct? Edited April 17, 2013 by Venom351R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I didn't offer to check your tune in order to start a shit storm. I want to help you straighten out your problem and cause the least amount of shit in the process. Yes, your tune has some significant faults. Yes there is much room for improvement. I also know that there is a chance that your car could run funny after I reprogram the chip. Simply because I don't have my hands directly on the car. I would much rather people see the results in this thread and come to me for tuning. I would like to be the local go-to guy for basic (h/c/i) tunes, and as in this case. If you have a tune and think its lacking, I want to be the guy who people turn to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) My goal is not to create a shit storm and nothing I would say publicly is nothing that has not already been said. More of a reinforcement type of thing. I personally know of 2 cars that have come out of that shop that were boosted and one lost a piston and the other one blew the engine. Of course after the fact of when I was there. I may show more displeasure here and be a bit more harsh but if I were to explain what is really going on I would be a bit more easy on local forums. Edited April 17, 2013 by Venom351R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 so what would you like me to do? do you want me to adjust the tune as I see fit and then try it out in your car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Ya that sounds good lets start there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Took it out for a drive around the block, drove pretty well for not having the chip in it. Feels so weird to drive it and compared to the STI its hard to tell if I just need more time w/ how the car rides or if my rear end was actually lose lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokiller Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 good to see you are back into the mustang. hopefully the adjusted tune will make up for what it was lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Nice and clean now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schiffy Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Nice and clean now.Looks good!Sent from my secretary!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I'm liking the valve covers on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Those were the cobra ones that came off, they are protoype cover they are not exactly the same as the ones that went on the production 94/95 cobra's. Used to be a 600RR attached to that exhaust next to it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 I was going to ask that too... I've got my long tubes and wire harness mounted to my wall. I was thinking about mounting my Canfield heads to the walls too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 my front sway bar is right above the roof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Travis, I'll be putting together your tune tonight. I'll try to have the chip in the mail tomorrow. If it doesn't happen, I will definitely get it out Saturday. I do certainly hope you give me a very honest opinion of how the car feels. If you suspect any issues, let me know right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 I will keith. Keep in mind I wont be able to fully see how it is until I feel comfortable with opening the car up at WOT. I have to get my MT DR's put on my weld wheels and put those on and get my 17X10.5 Cobra R's off the back b/c one side is rubbing my fender. Still have no idea why it is doing that now when it never did before. Only started to happen when the reared was taken out and put back in. It just seems to be over a smidge more then what it was before and just enough to rub the sidewall of the tire. Either way I'll roll the fender but for now the easy fix is to run the narrower wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 inner fender or outer fender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 inner fender towards the wheel well right where the sheet metal stops. It cut the shit out of my sidewall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 That's not abnormal. Hammer that shit flat and be done with it. I'll take pics of my car for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnyxCobra Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm interested to hear how you like the tune as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 yah post a pic up keith. I'll prob do some more hammer work on it saturday when Im off from work. I will Onyx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Keith is the man for fixing/finding peoples fucked up tunes. I have no doubts you'll be happy with the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Here comes another type-fest...Venom351R tune refinement Cliffs Notes:MIL delay time - reducedAir charge correction factor - set for no clippingTB airflow value correctedDisplacement value correctedTransmission ratios set to T5 values (instead of AODE)Ignition table scales adjusted (RPM and Load)Fuel - Open loop base table - remappedFuel - Open loop stabilized table - remapped (added fuel)Fuel - Open loop startup table - remappedInjector - Cranking PW changed for larger injectorsSpark logic reduced to single table referenceSpark - Borderline and Altitude (disabled)Spark - Sea level - remapped (added 4.5* total timing)Spark - TIP in Retard (disabled)Total cells changed from old tune: 486Gonna try to get the chip out to you tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copmagnet Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 How do you make a tune based off a car that hasn't been data logging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Well, the things I have set are fairly common sense items. The things that really require datalogging are his fuel injector and MAF settings. I can see that his original tuner did something here, albeit wrong. To fine tune his timing, we will adjust it at the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revhead347 Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 How do you make a tune based off a car that hasn't been data logging?I think this is a modern misconception. Back when I started tinkering with Mustangs, getting a dyno tune and data logging was unheard of. Only race cars got that kind of treatment. Hardly anyone even had a chip, and tuning meant that you got the base timing and fuel pressure right. Of course most people weren't tearing into brand new at the time SNs anyway. Most people were using Foxbodies which had the more forgiving computer. It is of course better to do a dynotune with a wideband, but a good tuner can get your pretty damn close to peak performance without ever seeing the car. 13 years ago I paid $265 to an online tuner for a chip. I still have that chip, and the car runs fantastic. I have never done any computer tuning with the car on the dyno.Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 It is of course better to do a dynotune with a wideband, but a good tuner can get your pretty damn close to peak 13 years ago I paid $265 to an online tuner for a chip.And to think... I only charge $189 for a chip and tune. 13 years after you paid $265! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copmagnet Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Sorry if I came off rude, I just don't know much about tuning and was confused on how you made a tune without being able to see what the car is actually doing. Im interested in seeing how well the chip works..would be nice to have a custom tune made instead of using a can tune from bama.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Sorry if I came off rude, I just don't know much about tuning and was confused on how you made a tune without being able to see what the car is actually doing. Im interested in seeing how well the chip works..would be nice to have a custom tune made instead of using a can tune from bama..It's quite ok dude. I understand why you could be skeptical. But the truth is, most SBF engines are the same. While I know I can squeeze more power out of his car in person, I also feel confident that I can do much better than the tune he paid an arm and a leg for.His build isn't all too dissimilar from mine, so a lot of stuff crosses over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copmagnet Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 You close to va beach? My mach needs a new tune.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 You close to va beach? My mach needs a new tune..Sorry... I don't touch the 4.6l... I don't want to catch something! Travis, the chip is on its way. Should arrive Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-Oh Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Holy crap, lots of info in here. None of it makes any sense to me but good stuff! Making me think twice about the place I had planned on getting mine done at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revhead347 Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 And to think... I only charge $189 for a chip and tune. 13 years after you paid $265!Yeah no kidding right. $265 was cheap back then. I think the regular price was $310 and JMS gave me a college kid discount. Back then options were kind of limited. You could go with Diablo, and your engine would blow up, or you could go with Superchips and it wouldn't make any power. I think the Diablo was like $450 for a custom tune, and Superchips was $410. Then JMS started doing them, and they seemed pretty decent so everyone started going with them.Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnyxCobra Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 I just realized I think these are the nicest posts Keith has ever made on a forum lol. I mean, just look at this professionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 I just realized I think these are the nicest posts Keith has ever made on a forum lol. I mean, just look at this professionalism.I took some time away from the community to get my shit straight. Now I guess I can give something back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 I paid $450 for that chip and initial tune and $150 for another retune. Thanks Keith I dont work monday so I'll try it out then. Thats a lot of changes, should make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom351R Posted April 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Hopefully fixed the wheel issue with it scraping the inter fender. I heated up that edge and pounded the hell out of it w/ a 2X4 and hammer. hopefully this gives me enough clearance now. Here are a few pics of what it did to my tire. No cords are showing and no air is leaking from it but should I even drive on this thing?Keith to go back to my FB post you commented on before about this I'll explain it better. I want to get 18" wheels. If I bought a new set of tires now for my 17's it would almost be a waste but I dont think I can pass inspection with these tires they are worn down a lot, I could be wrong though but also b/c if they notice the damage on this tire ( which I dont know if I should even drive on ) then they would fail me anyway. So thats why I wanted to put the weld wheels on w/ the MT DR's for this summer and getting the spacer will make it so they clear my brakes better then they have in the past. Also the wheels I'm thinking of getting are 18X10 so losing that half inch (b/c I have 10.5 now) Should make me all set as far as hitting the inside of the fender with a new set of tires.You can see here when it sheered big strips of rubber off the tire it slapped the outside of the fender leaving black marks.After some massage work, I hope this is enough for clearance now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64bit_Tuning Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 I'm going to be getting my hands on an Eastwood fender roller in the next few weeks. Maybe a road trip would be in order... Then I could make further adjustments to your tune in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...