F8L GT Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Im just a little bracket racer but I just wanted to show you my work. About mid way through the 2010 season, I got the natorious 3rd gear synchronizer problem in my TR-3650. With starting a new family I did not have the funds to buy the upgrade kit for the 3650. After talking to my dad, we decided to face plate my transmission. All of the work was done my me, on manual mills and lathes with the exception of the tig welding. That was done by my father. Started out by blue printing the dog rings to get a rough idea of where to start millingDog rings were made out of 8620 raw stock The gear side in processThe Slider side for engaging 2nd gearTurning down the gears to remove the synchronizing teeth and for the shrink fit of the dog rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Once the correct tolerances were made for the shrink fit, the dog rings were put in the oven and gears put in the freezer. After a while they parts were mated togetherAfter the were cooled down, they were put back on the lathe to be faced to proper sizeFor the 3rd-4th slider, we made a whole new slider. we turned the sides down of the stock on so just a hub and splines remaind and then mated the 2 and tig welded them together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 during some test fitting, we ran across some clearance issues that were easily addressedonce the clearance issues were fixed, the rings were welded to the gears instead of just relying on the shrink fitAll the parts ready to installRe-assembly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 The trans was put together with the stock shift forks. We new they would not last but we were not sure for how long. I had been messing with a clutch stop to only engage it enough to make the quick shift. It however gave me issues with 3rd gear. This, i think weakend the shift fork and on July 8th of 2011, it decided to let go.It took out 4th gear with it. After analyizing 4th gear, we decided it was not strong enough so we started over. Machined off old dog ringMachined down 4th gear to make a thicker hubMachining new dog ringonce the dog ring was done, the input and ring were mated and faced downRing welded to inputGetting ring up to 1500 for oil quench heat treat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 after oil quench, the input was placed in an oven at 500* for 3 hours for the annealing process. This is the input after it came outBy comparing the old and new inputs, you can tell how much beefier this new one isold:new: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Took the car out for a ride on June 2nd, first time this transmission has seen actual street use other than trial runs down our dead end road. Well, the slider we modified for 1-2 did not hold up real well. I down shifted a little too early to make a corner and it never felt right after that. I dicided to try a WOT shift from 1-2 and this is what happenedBusted all the lugs of the slider clean off. So we dicided to go back to the drawing board and do the same thing we did for the slider for 3-4. Only this time we were just going to have the center splined to match rather than mating the splines of the factory slider to the new piece, but no one would get back to use about it and I got tired of waiting.Machined factory sliderMachining new sliderNew slider and old splines mated togetherAs you can see, we also decided to upgrade from 4 lugs to 8 and also made them thicker since 2nd gear takes more abuse as far as load with down shifting and also starting the burnouts in 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 The trans is back together now but not quite working like it should. The lugs of the dog ring for second are too large and closed the engagement window too far and can not do a WOT shift. This winter I will be pulling the trans back out and machining a little more clearance. The shift forks were also sent to liberty to be cryo-treated to help them last a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Amazing work. If only you lived closer yall could do some serious work to my T5!! Keep the content coming!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330CubeGt Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Damn thats some great work you pops have done. Sucks your having so many issues with it.Why not spend the extra money and pickup a set of Billet forks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Damn thats some great work you pops have done. Sucks your having so many issues with it.Why not spend the extra money and pickup a set of Billet forks?No one makes billet forks for a 3650 yet. Bob Hanlon had a 2-3 fork made by his supplier. Going to see how well it works out. Then have them make me a custom oneSent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330CubeGt Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 No one makes billet forks for a 3650 yet. Bob Hanlon had a 2-3 fork made by his supplier. Going to see how well it works out. Then have them make me a custom oneSent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2Honestly i think you could make one based on the pics your posting, but either way that would be sick to upgrade as in most 5 Speeds the forks are the weak links when your grabbin gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Very impressive work my friend! I was recently playing around with the idea of making my own very similar to what you are doing. but Liberty gears is right up the street form me and after talking to the guys I realized they sell the parts by themselves and you can turn the teeth off your own gears and weld them on for cheep enough that my labor doesn't justify trying to do what you are doing. not to mention I would probably have a big pile of scrap metal before I turned out the quality of work you have there. great job man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330CubeGt Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Don't they sell them complete ready to slide on for $80 ish per gear. Or was that the dog rings alone? Im on the fence if I just want to go with billet forks and leave it be or if I should invest the money and go face plated Heads up and ass kickin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Very impressive work my friend! I was recently playing around with the idea of making my own very similar to what you are doing. but Liberty gears is right up the street form me and after talking to the guys I realized they sell the parts by themselves and you can turn the teeth off your own gears and weld them on for cheep enough that my labor doesn't justify trying to do what you are doing. not to mention I would probably have a big pile of scrap metal before I turned out the quality of work you have there. great job man!When I tasked to liberty, they said to do a 3650 would be to expensive because they would have to do a lot of testing and change a lot of stuff compared to the t56. They wanted 5k just to build one out of a 3650Sent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330CubeGt Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 When I tasked to liberty, they said to do a 3650 would be to expensive because they would have to do a lot of testing and change a lot of stuff compared to the t56. They wanted 5k just to build one out of a 3650Sent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2Thats F'in nuts that they even gave you a price like that.Ever thought of just running a T/45for the ease of getting stronger/better parts that don't cost an arm and a leg?Heads up and ass kickin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Once I upgrade the input shaft, this thing will be pretty stout. I will find you the email from libertySent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 holy hell! I just took for granted they had a 3650 kit too. 330 do you drive it on the street? and yeah for t5's its $80 a gear ready for assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330CubeGt Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Going to a 26 spline? Heads up and ass kickin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Sorry, it was 3500. here's the email The TR-3650 is a intricate transmission to face plate. The gears have to be combo'd to the face plate instead of installing the face plate on the cone of the gear and we have to manufacture custom forks. The entire process would cost roughly $3,500. To be honest you would be better off using a T-56, it is a stronger transmission and in the case of the Ford version is a lot less expensive to face plate. We can face plate a T-56 from a Cobra for about $750. The turn around time is about 3-4 weeks.Thanks, Brandonand I will be going 18 spline Sent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330CubeGt Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thats nuts man, still $3,500 is a little steap.. I can have mine billet forked and face plated for $500ish with me doing the work.Heads up and ass kickin! Using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I have 250 wrapped up into this one in materialsSent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330CubeGt Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thank god you have the tools/skills to make it happen tho. You did some nice work. I just hope it stays together for you this time.Heads up and ass kickin! Using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnyxCobra Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 What exactly is face plating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330CubeGt Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 What exactly is face plating?http://www.libertysgears.com/faceplate.htmHeads up and ass kickin! Using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thank god you have the tools/skills to make it happen tho. You did some nice work. I just hope it stays together for you this time.Heads up and ass kickin! Using Tapatalk 2If it breaks again that's just one more step to making it strongerSent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 f8L I like were your head is at. Cant buy parts so I'll make my own, dont tell me what cant be done, type of stuff. and keep at her till you get her right. very inspiring in the world of going to the internet to find out what other people are doing and just copy step by step. Really inspiring that you did what you had to do with the funds and talent available. cheers man!onyx. Face Plating Is one of several similar procedures to make your trans drop into gear faster and at a higher rpm. The basic jist with all of the different names for similar modifications ( silck shift, proshift, faceplate, dog ring, ets) is you reduce the number of, or surface area of the engagement teeth on the gears and sliders that mate with them to complete a shift. for instance a home brewed "slick shift" is to grind every other tooth of your gear and every other tooth off the slider that mates with it. this way there are half as many obstructions when the teeth on both the slider, syncro, and gear are trying to mesh. the way it was first explained to me, and it might even be in the liberty link posted above, i didnt read it, is picture a picket fence. you are driving a car and trying to throw a stick out the window at 45mph throw the fence. take out every other fence post and it becomes a lot easier to get the stick through the fence. that is the striped down explanation but the basic principle that all these mods use. most of this type of modification is considered to be not street friendly, some because of excessive wear on the parts as 1/2 the teeth bear twice the load, and half because when you drive them they have such a big tolerance between the engagement surfaces that when you are not under full load they can clunk and bang and such. especially down shifting. F8L can correct and expand on any street ability issues much more than I can Im sure. I had a buddy with a face plated trans in a fox. i took a short ride with him but we were beating the hell out of it and he was showing off so i am pretty much going on hear say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Most of the streetability problems comes from the shifting. You have to push in the clutch and ram it back into gear all simultaneously or you will be bouncing the lugs off each other. There's no more leisure shifting like with a synchronized TransSent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slykin Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 This is a freakin cool thread. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 F8l is there such thing as floating the gratis in clutchless like you would on a semi truck? I have herd what you said about shit or get off the pot when you shift and always wondered of you can match em with a double clutch or float em in like a big rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I have tried it but its a violent shift, one in which blew up my slider. Others you may be able to do it with but not this oneSent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Here is a video from 2011 when we first put the trans in. As you can hear, there were some issues with clearance that we took care of the next few times it was outhttp://www.streetfire.net/video/faceplated-tr3650-trial_2229201.htmHeres a video from this spring right before my slider desided to blow aparthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzOVT6OCjY0&feature=g-upl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revhead347 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Awesome work. That's amazing precision.Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auto_x5.0 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Absolutely beautiful machine work, very professional so to speak. If you can get a kit that works for you, you should patent and market it a little and see if you can make a profit for money>amount of time to produce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks. as far as getting a kit patented and market it, that probably wont happen. Not unless I can talk my dad into finally buying a cnc mill for the shop. Way to time consuming on a manual mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auto_x5.0 Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Yeah, definitely good work for a manual mill though. Were they all first time shots or alot of r&d? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted October 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 They are all first time shots except for the parts that failed like the shift fork, the dog ring on 4th and the 1-2 slider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det_Riot Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Any updates on this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Trans is coming out next week to get the remachining doneSent from my LG-AS680 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det_Riot Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Make sure you document the work bud! I love seeing handiwork and custom work like this. On a side note, did you get a better exhaust video yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L GT Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 No, but I have to do it before dropping the TransSent from my LG-AS680 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
