94 Cobra #3815

[Psychorugby]

MacPherson setup still relies on the shock towers.  If you're moving the control arms forward that far, you'd have to adjust the sock towers too.

[95riosnake]

It would actually be better, in my opinion, leaving the engine where it sits, then moving the front wheel centerline forward along with the strut towers (if they are kept). This would give you MASSIVE amounts of space in front of the motor for pretty much anything you want. I could see ducting from the radiator to vent through the hood living there. Also, by moving the front wheels further in front of the motor it should help balance the car a bit better by shifting the weight further behind the front wheels. Not mid-engined by any means but I'd imagine it would give a similar effect to setting the engine back in a car with a wheel base 5" longer than a mustang.

 

Not saying it will be simple at all, but I think it can be done with some old fashioned patience, dedication and creativity

[Prokiller]

this. will. be. epic.

[Steve-Oh]

Welp all caught up now!! Mind is blown! Tons of great ideas floating around in here! @SublimeRT

[Zach]

Or ditch the strut towers and go with a sla set up.

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[95riosnake]

^ Yea I guess I was mistakenly thinking stretched front end, there wouldn't be more room up front. But I do think the other advantages would hold true. Either way, I want to see this happen!

[Zach]

Short long arm, with the Griggs set up you can almost virtually do away with the stock strut towers. But in that you would create all other kinds of problems by having to move that whole setup forward to can the wheelbase stretch desired.

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[SublimeRT]

So far this is what I'm thinking with the whole front end and drivetrain and all that.  I like the dimensions of the car as far as overall length goes, I think the hood is long enough, so that will not be changing.  I want to improve the weight distribution of the car though, and I've always thought the front overhang on these cars is a bit much.  They can use some more wheelbase, as we've seen with the FR500, S197, and MM setups (not sure about Griggs and the Agent 47 SLA, but probably theirs too).  The SN95 wheelbase is about 101", FR500 is about 106", and S197 about 107".  So 5-6" is what I'm thinking and it will probably just come down to what works and looks better.  

 

Since they will likely be modified, I'm going to start hunting for a used MM K-member and forward offset A-arms which combined will push the wheels forward 1.5", so I just need to move the K forward 3.5" to get 5" total.  I've been looking at pics of the MM K and with the help of @Steve-Oh I've seen what kind of reinforcements are inside the front frame rails at the K-member mounting points.  I don't think it will be a problem to modify the K and the framerail to move the K forward.  From what I gather this is pretty much what Ford did to achieve the 5" on the FR500.

 

The strut towers will be cut out and new towers will be fabbed up out of DOM tubing for the upper coil-over mount, and will be reinforced/tied into the car's cage with more tubing.  An upper control arm will be added.  I have not decided where to source the UCAs and coil-overs yet.  Going to use 96-up spindles with a spindle adapter to attach the ball joint for the UCA.  An adapter can be bought from Factory Five Parts, Whitby Motorcars, and supposedly Griggs, though I can't find it on their website.  Not sure which I'll use.  The Whitby piece looks nicer than the Factory Five Parts piece, but it is in a kit for a FFR Cobra and comes with some UCA mounts I won't need and it's $350 compared to $70 for the FFP piece.  I'll have to email Whitby and see if they will sell the spindle adapter alone for a better price.  I've come across a few people on other forums that have done this, so I can't take credit, but if interested I can PM links.  Not sure if posting them up is allowed.

 

Spindle adapters

http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/1987-2004-spindle-adapter-bracket/

 

http://www.whitbymotorsports.com/UInvDetail.asp?invPage=4&inventoryid=1604

 

The engine and trans will be going rearward a few inches, so I will gain some room in front of the engine because of that.  I moved the drivers seat back a while ago from where I put it in the pics you see earlier in this thread.....can't remember exactly how much right now, I'll have to measure, but it was 3-5" and I also lowered it a little.  It will help with getting in and out a lot and it gives more headroom, not that I'm huge at 5'9", but these cars are kinda cramped.  I remember one of the first things I noticed when I first sat in a SN95/New Edge years ago, it was an '02 GT, was how close my head was to the A-pillar.  A friend of mine had a buddy that had a SN95 and crashed bad and the A-pillar caved in and crushed his head and killed him so that always pops in my head too, no pun intended.  Also a little bit of trivia, is for the '04 Mustang coupes, Ford made the A-pillar covers larger with foam padding in them.  Supposedly to meet tighter crash regulations, but kinda makes you wonder.  Anyways, the seat is now back closer to the main hoop of the cage which is good for safety, and from the outside it looks better IMO having the seat, main hoop and b-pillar all closer.  But point is I can't reach my shifter now, so I'm just gonna bring it to me a little, haha.  Seriously though the engine/trans set-back will help more with weight distribution and valuable space in front of the engine. 

 

I'll stop rambling now.  I didn't wanna say too much because until I actually get the ball rolling on all this I'm all talk.  But it is nice to talk about it.  Lord knows my girlfriend doesn't wanna hear all this.  I'll throw up some pics of SLA setups that have got the wheels in my head turning.

 

This is the Super Stallions front suspension.  Pretty interesting.

 

This is Griggs SLA

 

 

This is a '00R with a MM setup converted to SLA.  UCA is on a bracket that sandwiches between the K and framerail.  An upper ball joint adapter was used on the stock spindle, though I'm not sure which one, and the strut mounts to the MM LCA via a custom bracket.  These are the only two pics I have.  Came across this guy on another forum and can PM the link if interested.

 

 

Here's another guys setup I came across.  This was an AIX Fox hatch that won it's first race, then got totaled the second race.  A real shame, but he said it worked great.  His new race car is a S197 so this SLA was a short lived experiment.  Again a modified MM setup.  Custom made UCA/Coil-over mount.  Modified MM LCAs.  FFP spindle bracket.  Racecraft 2" lowering spindles.

 

 

 

And here is the FR500.  Not very telling pics but the best I've found so far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[95riosnake]

I didn't know anyone made those upper ball joint adapters, very cool. I prefer the setup on the now-wrecked fox AIX car the most I think, the setup on the 00R is no doubt better than stock, but the idea of just losing the strut towers all together is something I've wanted to do for a long time. Imagine how easy it would be to work in the engine bay, and how amazing it would look without those big eyesores taking up all the room.

 

Your idea of cutting them out and making tubular roll cage extensions to replace them sounds badass too though, probably the best alternative to losing them all together.

 

You can post links to other forums if you want, we're not like SVTP lol.

[Steve-Oh]

I now feel like I've contributed something to your build!!  Makes me happy lol.  You've definitely done your research and can't wait to see the progress unfold!  Also completely agree Dan, those strut towers are lame sauce.

 

God all these SLA pics make me want to spend moarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

[Prokiller]

definitely a 3/4 baked plan at this point it seems.  you've really thought the suspension pieces through pretty good it seems.  Although if you're moving your shifter back, how are you going to make up that space with the plastic center console or are you going to fab a new center console yourself?  

[SublimeRT]

@95riosnake I agree the AIX setup is the ticket and resembles what I'm after the most. I remember you've mentioned ditching the strut towers and said you had some fresh ideas for the engine bay. Looking forward to seeing what you do.

@Prokiller not sure what you mean by 3/4 baked plan. Not a saying I'm familiar with. I won't be putting a center console in the car though. At most will extend the radio stack/center section straight down to the floor to give it a finished look. Like, imagine the stock setup if it were to stop and be finished off after the shifter bezel. No arm rest, cup holders and all that. Engine and trans will go back 2-3" tops. Will prob still need a long shifter familiar to the Mustang world, and that's okay.

[Prokiller]

i meant that you have it pretty well thought out.  seems like there is only a couple open questions before you move to fab work.  

 

there was actually a guy over on stangnet years ago that deleted the center console.  i'll see if i can find the thread.

 

 

i can't find the actual thread he made for it (perhaps he didn't) but i did find a couple pics of his interior without a console.

 

EDIT: the pic links don't work, here's the link to the post:

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/looking-for-pictures-with-no-center-console.860588/#post-8654876

[Tabres]

That AIX setup looks simple yet so effective.  I love everything about this idea.

 

Totally digging the idea to delete the console, btw.  If there was proof that it could be done cleanly, I would have gone down that route already.  Everything I've seen though hasn't had the dash and parking brake finished in an aesthetically pleasing way.  And to be honest, I haven't been creative enough to come up with another way than what I've already seen.

 

I've always wanted to find some way to make/modify a console to work around a shifter setup like this:

 

[SublimeRT]

@Prokiller That's kinda what I was thinking but I'm a bit slower than usual today.  I'm running on about 5 hours of crappy sleep.  I really can't take credit though for the suspension.  The other guys did the hard work.  Though I will still have to figure out exact placement of the UCA and coil over on my own.  I remember the car you posted though; I like what he did a lot.  I actually talked to him a bit about it and he said he cut out some of the metal brackety down at the bottom of the center stack, and that the dash moved a bit more than he'd like after that, so he welded some reinforcements back on in hidden areas.  Other than that it's pretty straight forward.  He used a new ACC carpet which he said didn't have any holes pre-cut.  After seeing those pics and talking to him I removed my console to see how I liked the feel, and I liked it.  There is a metal bracket near the rear of the console that is riveted to the floor that has to be removed but no biggie. 

 

I think this is what he cut out below the dash.

 

@Tabres those remote shifters are pretty cool.  Something I've considered but we'll see.  A nice looking console around one would be tricky though. 

 

Here is the link to the thread I found the AIX car.  He goes by edhunter.  I was mistaken on winning its first race.  It won its first race, the second weekend he raced it, then crashed it the next day.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/road-racing-auto-x/1418090-there-sla-setup-not-like-bazillion-dollars.html

 

This is the link the '00R owner posted in the above thread at the corral about his car.  He goes by 2000mcr on corral and svtguy on SVTP.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?797708-SLA-Front-Suspension

[Prokiller]

@SublimeRT yeah i remember him having to make up some kind of support bracing for the dash because he said it sagged too much without the center pieces he had cut out.  that's the thread i was trying to look for but couldn't find it. 

[Blackmage]

Awesome research on that front suspension setup man.  Thoroughly enjoyed reading through all of it.  Don't worrying about rambling IMO, talking it out helps get your thoughts together and helps us get a better understanding of what youre thinking and what you want to accomplish.  Although I have NOTHING to contribute lol, I feel like some of these other guys can def help you out better with the more information given to them!

[95opal]

If you build it, they will CUM.... or something like that lol

[95riosnake]

I agree there's nothing wrong with sharing plans, I'm both glad and mad you did because I didn't know anyone made a spindle ball joint adapter. Now there are expensive, time consuming gears turning in my head lol.

[SublimeRT]

Hey guys, I've decided to post a little update here.  I was going to wait a bit longer until I had things a bit more refined looking, but I'm fighting off a little cold and just taking it easy this weekend so why not.  I last left you with some pics of the car with some 1/8th rods crudely taped to the car, and getting the car up on some stands.  I've basically been expanding on and refining that, though it is not 100% completed yet. 

 

What I'm after is my version of a widebody SN95.  I've drawn a lot of inspiration from the Saleen SR Widebody racecars (Thanks to Dan for help with this), and also from the C4 ZR1 Corvettes.  I have a soft spot for C4s, and I have always loved ZR1s and the fact that they are a C4 on steroids, with that widebody, not to mention that sweet LT5, but that's another story.  I wished more manufacturers would have done something like they did with the ZR1 to more distinguish the performance models.  Also I remember as a kid, a book I got from the book fair at school that was filled with the latest performance cars.  In it, it had this really cool front 3/4 view sketch of a SN95 that really exaggerated all the good curves and had a great stance and I thought it was so cool looking.  Aside from the Mustang in Bullitt this was the first time a Mustang really left an impression on me. 

 

After trying a few little different things with taping the 1/8th rods to the car, I broke out the welder and have been making a complete wire buck out of the 1/8th steel rod.  I have come up with something I am pretty happy with.  At first I took a length of the rod and held the ends at the front and rear of the quarter and pulled the center out a few inches, and in my opinion this resulted in too tight of a curve.  I think if someone only wanted an inch or less of flare to the quarter that this would be fine, but at 2 inches it looked too peaky overall.  So then I opened the door a little and started the rod at the door edge and this looked much smoother to me.  I left it like this for a bit so I could just look at it and let it soak in.  I liked it but it still wasn't IT to me.  It looked bloated in the middle of the car and the rear end was tapered down and skinny in comparison, like the Tazmanian Devil or something.  So I took it a step further and pulled the tail light out, unscrewed the studs from the housing, did a little trimming to it with the Dremel, then spaced it out an inch and a half and lined up the rod with it, and this was the ticket. 

 

So for the final measurements, at the rear edge of the door and front edge of the rear quarter are 3/4" wider measured right above the accent line in the middle of the door that leads into the scoop, this is pretty much the widest part of the door.  The center of the wheel arch is 2" wider.  The rear of the quarter, tail light, and bumper which has been sliced vertically, are spaced out 1.5" measured at the outer bottom corner of the tail light where it meets the quarter.  The result is something that is quite stock looking but with a bit more presence and only slightly more curved than the stock quarter, and this is what I'm after.  This is not an extreme widebody like some you see.

 

Also throughout this process I've had some rod taped to the front fender approximately where I want it so I can get a feel for how the whole side of the car will look.  Honestly, most of the extra overall curviness will come from the front fenders.  You can look at the Griggs SN Cobra vert and see this.  The wide front fenders on it make the whole car look so much better IMO.  Anyways, on to some pics.  I've taken so many, it's going to be hard to choose just a few.

 

Here's where I started.  Got it on stands and just played with taping the rods until I found something I liked the look of.  The car is actually on jack stands and the springs and shocks have been removed and the wooden stands are holding the wheels up.

 

 

A little closer pic.  You can see a spoiler design I was playing with.  I put it a step in it, inspired by the stock crab claw wing.  I like it but I'll revisit it later.

 

 

I like how the spoiler flows with the top of the quarter and roof.  You can also see a little section of metal I bent up for the rocker design to play with.  I'll revisit this later as well after the quarter is fully dialed in.

 

 

I removed everything and got started with the wire buck.  I made this pattern of the wheel arch to keep it consistent on the buck.  It follows the arch well, I just didn't do good with the picture, ha.

 

 

I did some measuring and made a mark every three inches on the belt line.

 

 

Plumb bob was used as well to locate the centerline for the rear wheel.

 

 

I drew a line every 3" on the quarter and also removed some paint on the wheel arch to weld some stands for the buck.

 

 

Here I've welded the stands to the wheel arch.

 

 

Here I've started outlining things with the 1/8th wire.  You can also see I have more stands along the door jam.  The 1/8th wire fits into the door gap without interfering.  I also welded the door to one of them to hold it consistently at the aforementioned 3/4" measurement.  And a stand at the taillight to bumper corner and in the middle of the quarter belt line.

 

 

Quite a few layers of paint.  I always wondered if this car had been repainted.  I think so.  Also so much for keeping the original paint and patina, lol. 

 

 

The outer frame mostly wrapped up and taillight spaced out and taped into place.

 

 

Apparently I didn't take as many pictures throughout this process as I thought I did.  But here I have quite a few stations bent up and tacked into place.  You can see the shape starting to come alive here.  I also put another piece of the 1/8th wire down the middle as somewhat of a guide.

 

 

Another view.

 

 

Another view I really like. 

 

 

Marking my cut line for the bumper.

 

 

The rear bumper looks like it was hit at some point but it's a strange looking hit if that's what it is.  You can see the deformations near the edges here.

 

 

The bottom doesn't look smashed in though.  I looked the car over and it doesn't look like any of it transferred through to the unibody.  Still strange though.

 

 

Backside of the bumper, you see there's a metal brace that I'll have to cut through and extend eventually.

 

 

Cut made.

 

 

Bumper reinstalled.  It's not gapped perfectly; there's only 1 bolt holding it on.  Plus, I've noticed these cars are absolute messes as far as rear gaps go.  Trunk to taillights, taillights to bumper, trunk to bumper, etc.  I'm sure mine is especially bad if it's been whacked.  You can see I also got a little ahead of myself and started covering the buck with masking tape so I could see the shape better.

 

 

You can start to get a feel for the wider rear end now.

 

 

I really like these high shots where you can also sight down the side of the car.  Shows off the curves and wideness really well.

 

 

Another good view.

 

 

I put the other fender on too at some point to get a better feel for the car as a whole.

 

 

Another shot I like.  You can see I've started making some stations on the top of the quarter.

 

 

Other side for comparison.  Kinda blurry though.  I have a lot of pics like this that I'd like to edit together to really see the difference.

 

 

Here I've put the hood back on to again get a better feel for things.  You can also see I've wrapped things in red duct tape.  It dawned on me that red duct tape is probably easily available so I went to Lowes and sure enough, I found some. 

 

 

Another view.

 

 

A high rear shot.  I've taped up the gaps in the bumper and from the taillight to the decklid, and drew the gaps in with a sharpie.  Also I taped up from the sail panel all the way to the tip of the A-pillar.  I'll get into the details of this later.

 

 

Another shot I took the other day.

 

 

I took a big breath, took one last good look at everything, then ripped all the tape back off.  The buck isn't finished, but I just couldn't resisit taping it up a while back.  I still need to put more stations on the top of the quarter every 3" like I did the side and also wrap up a few details like at the door jam and the side scoop and things like that.  Then I'll wrap it back up better and it will look smoother.  I also need to straighten it up a bit.  Something I learned is that the 1/8th moves a bit even just tacking it in.  I might even just hang this one on the wall and build another out of 1/4" rod to be more sturdy for when it comes time to actually build the panel.

 

 

I have more pics I'd like to post from my phone, but honestly this post has taken a long time and I'm hungry.  Thanks for looking, and as always, comments, critiques, opinions, and advice are all welcome. 

[Det_Riot]

The amount of badass that you are embarking on is uncomprehendable. Jesus blaise, this is so sweet. I think the wing makes me the most moist. But the red tapped concept is so awesome. I'm digging it [emoji14]opcorn:

[Steve-Oh]

This build thread never ceases to amaze.  There are a few build threads on here that blown my mind and this is absolutely one of them.  Love seeing progress, well done sir!

 

 

[95riosnake]

This is some awesome stuff! I love how the quarters are shaping up! I really like the idea of moving the taillights out, that should really give the car a crazy look from behind when it's done.

[stang232]

Great job, I love wide look of Griggs cobra

Your coupe will look killer.

I look forward to further progress

[SublimeRT]

Thanks guys! I'm glad you guys like it so far. It's very encouraging and motivating. I know not everyone will like it and that's okay.

[95riosnake]

Whoever doesn't like it needs their eyes checked lol.

[Tony]

omg man!! so awesome! this thing is going to be epic!!! just simply epic!

[Sleeperstang1994]

It feels like I have been waiting for this update my whole life! O man I would love to do this to my car! So much awesome.

[SublimeRT]

Thanks guys! And @Sleeperstang1994, yeah it has been a while since my last update. Really gonna try to pick up the pace a bit. Though it won't be blistering by any means, I can do better.

[Tony]

Thanks guys! And @Sleeperstang1994, yeah it has been a while since my last update. Really gonna try to pick up the pace a bit. Though it won't be blistering by any means, I can do better.

something about you rio red cobra owners, you guys don't eff around lol.

[Blackmage]

i dont think the car needs to be painted, just leaving the red duct tape should suffice    nice work man! cant wait to see more progess!

[SublimeRT]

Haha. Yeah the tape matches close enough. Maybe I'll start a new trend to go along with the plastidip and wraps and all that. Thanks man!

[Prokiller]

this looks amazing.  do you have any shots of straight on looking at the rear of the car?  my only fear/concern is that the taper of the rear towards the back will be too abrupt which will make the rear look small.  so like you're bringing the fender our 2" but only the taillights and such 1" may make the rear end look small.  oh and the red tape is exactly what i was going to recommend you doing to get a feel for it vs. the blue stuff.  it's not quite the same when it's off color and the gloss of duct tape helps the curves give the semblance of depth and shine.

[SublimeRT]

Thanks Ryan! The taper towards the rear is a concern of mine as well. I think so far it is okay. One big advantage of the wire buck though is that I can easily change it if needed. I agree with the tape also, the blue making tape wasn't cutting it. I found one decent rear shot.

[Prokiller]

Thanks Ryan! The taper towards the rear is a concern of mine as well. I think so far it is okay. One big advantage of the wire buck though is that I can easily change it if needed. I agree with the tape also, the blue making tape wasn't cutting it. I found one decent rear shot.

 

that shot really puts my mind at ease.  i think it's going to turn out awesome

[Blackmage]

so how do you plan on covering the cage you just made? sheet metal over the top? 

[95riosnake]

Very rough photoshop, but this gives an idea how it would look on both sides... Looks absolutely badass.

 

[Det_Riot]

Those hips don't lie

[SublimeRT]

so how do you plan on covering the cage you just made? sheet metal over the top?

Yeah, sheet metal will be used. The cage will not become part of the car though. It is just used as a guide for shaping the new panel. Then the new panel will replace the old and all the underlying structure will be modified/extended to join it just like the factory configuration. This is mainly the outer wheel house, trunk floor drop offs, and rockers.

[SublimeRT]

Very rough photoshop, but this gives an idea how it would look on both sides... Looks absolutely badass.

Oh man! Thanks so much Dan. I tried to do that last night but it just wasn't happening; my Photoshop skills are lacking. I love it. That sets my mind at ease with some things.