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Blackmage

I'm Starting a Debate on K-Members

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Why is team z, MM, Griggs better than AJE, UPR, QA1, or whatever else you can find out there.    Some good hard evidence would help me decide this, not "they have a repuation that I trust"  or "people always say bad things about them".    Ok, if they have a bad rap, show me, I really feel like K-members are getting blown out of proportion on "how bad" some of them are.  I did some searches and can not find jack squat on what is bad with product A or B,  maybe road harshness from the combo coil-over kit, but thats not the k members fault. 

 

Kenny Brown: $769.00  http://store.kennybrown.com/product/front-suspension/light-weight-tubular-front-k-member-1996-2004-mustang-and-cobra

49610_and_49615_and_49612ai_hi_res.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Griggs Racing: $949.95 http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4332_4310_4348_2005_3095&products_id=227

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QA1: $299.95 http://www.qa1.net/suspension/street-performance-racing-suspension-components/k-members/ford-k-member

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UPR Products: $299.99 (Mild Steel) http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-pro-series-mild-steel-k-member-96.html

$(KGrHqN,!mEE8Lkme5u3BPPn4PEbIQ~~60_35.G

 

 

 

 

 

UPR Products: $369.99 (Chrome Moly) http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-pro-series-chrome-moly-k-member-96.html

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AJE Racing: $280 http://www.ajeracing.com/mustang.php

aje-mu40um_wb_003.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

PA Racing: $539.95 (Chrome moly) (mild steel take off $110) http://www.paracing.com/racingstore/product_info.php?cPath=30_56&products_id=144

1191-1_white.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

TeamZ Motorsports: $309.00 (Metal Matrix style) http://www.teamzmotorsports.net/Mustang_k_member_p/tzm-km-96-04.htm

TZM-KM-96-04-2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Team Z Motorsports: $499.00 Auto X (Street Beast) http://www.teamzmotorsports.net/product_p/tzm-ac-kmember.htm

TZM-AC-Kmember-2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maximum Motorsports: $649.00 http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM-K-member-for-Mustang-1996-2004-P276.aspx

MMKM-2_LG.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Steeda AutoSports: $995.95 http://www.steeda.com/steeda-lightweight-96-04-mustang-k-member-555-5078/

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Kooks: $399.99 http://www.kooksheaders.com/accessories/kooks-1979-2004-mustang-tubular-k-member.html

KCH-760001-3.jpg?1386226910

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i cant say anything bad about the other brands cause ive never used them but im super happy with my MM k member, build quality is great and everything bolt up with no issue or problems. Ive had it under the car for little over a year and i DD, drag and autox with no problems.  

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Don't we have a thread talking about this already?

We had someone asking about preferences on them. And you and I went back and forth on them a little

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Personal experience... I had to drill new holes and wallow out existing holes on a QA1 to get it to fit my car, which left very little material on one side and an uneasy feeling in my stomach.  Bought a MM instead and it bolted right up with no problems.

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Personal experience... I had to drill new holes and wallow out existing holes on a QA1 to get it to fit my car, which left very little material on one side and an uneasy feeling in my stomach.  Bought a MM instead and it bolted right up with no problems.

that's all I would need to hear in order to stay away from qa1 kmembers lol. So sick of wallowing holes and trying to force fit shit :-[
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that's all I would need to hear in order to stay away from qa1 kmembers lol. So sick of wallowing holes and trying to force fit shit :-[

 

Personal experience... I had to drill new holes and wallow out existing holes on a QA1 to get it to fit my car, which left very little material on one side and an uneasy feeling in my stomach.  Bought a MM instead and it bolted right up with no problems.

What did you have to drill new holes out for?  just for reference i bolted up a 96-04 QA1 to a foxbody about a month back and it fit like a glove. 

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What did you have to drill new holes out for?  just for reference i bolted up a 96-04 QA1 to a foxbody about a month back and it fit like a glove. 

 

Not the holes on an angle that tie to the frame, but the back two holes under the fender area had to be wallowed out pretty substantially... like 0.5-0.75".

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I definitely remember this being discussed at length before, tried to find the thread with no luck though. In my experience on several sites, threads like these generally don't go anywhere toward an answer. It's kind of like a Chevy vs. Ford, Republican vs. Democrat, Auto vs. Manual situation.

 

Anywho, I went with Team Z because I and many friends of mine have had no complaints or problems with their parts. I can't justify the price for MM on a street car when it comes to a K member, and even though some people don't think it's an issue, I don't want my wheels moved forward at all.

 

I wouldn't run any other brand than the two mentioned above due to peace of mind. Some of the lesser brands may be OK, but I'm not gonna roll the dice on something like a K member. I haven't put a cheap part in my car yet that stayed for very long (none remain), so I've learned my lesson to buy the brands with stellar reputations the first time around and save myself the headache and PITA from the beginning.

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Anywho, I went with Team Z because I and many friends of mine have had no complaints or problems with their parts. 

 

 I haven't put a cheap part in my car yet that stayed for very long (none remain), so I've learned my lesson to buy the brands with stellar reputations the first time around and save myself the headache and PITA from the beginning.

See now this is my quarrel with K-members.  Team Z and UPR have both just been stated as having a "quirk" with being installed (UPR missed the boat with their dimensions i guess lol), and you still went with it.  but does UPR have a bad reputation because people WANT it to have a bad reputation? 

 

earlier I had a conversation with you guys in regards to @opal95's stiffler system where everything had hind joints, because not everything is the same.  Who's not to say that @Psychorugby's or @det_riots cars are tweaked in some way that theirs did not quite fit.  I think Bryan's had other issues, but still.  

 

Is there something out there where these are load tested, side to side movements, other forces acting on it?  I guess UPR does have a drag race team that uses UPR stuff all the time, we probably won't hear about any failures they find after races, but we never see them during races. 

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Tweaking is one thing.  Expanding holes by nearly an inch just to get them to fit is quite another... and even then one of the two frame bolts wouldn't quite fit.  Everything had to be tightened a little in order, then go back and keep doing it until it was torqued.  The MM went on without ANY fuss.

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Yes I'd say if one fits perfect and another doesn't, its not the car its the part.

Thats fine and all, but thats one check for QA1 and one for Team Z (kinda).  There have probably been 3000 MM k members vs 30,000 QA1 bought.  its pretty obvious why, the price point is winning that battle. (yea i pulled those numbers from the depths of my butt)  So I can see why we might see some quality control issues with a part.

 

Do we have any knowledge of failures or parts bending during use?  Other than hitting a wall at 30 or a curb sidwayzzzz

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I personally would like to know some real life benefits of buying any aftermarket kmember lol. Unless one was to race are they even worth the headache to install or the hefty price?

some turbo kits require more space down there in order to get all the tubing in.  Weight does help with fuel economy as well.   working on anything under the engine too is 1000x easier.  SO much more room to put your hands and more tool space.  its great.

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I'm not saying every person has issues with UPR, but I would never give them my money. I've read many times about them ripping off other companies' designs and undercutting them with sub-par quality. As someone who works in the design industry, that strikes a chord with me because I know first hand what it takes to develop and get a product to market, only to have someone rip it off and take your business (it has happened to our company several times). Yes you can patent your design, but there are many ways to find loopholes around patents. I for one will never support a company that rips off other companies' hard work, I don't care if the shit is free, they can keep it.

 

Here are a few examples of people with bad experiences with UPR, like I said there are many people out there who have never had an issue with their UPR parts but I don't see things like this regarding Team Z or MM parts.

 

http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/1101501-upr-arm-%3D-garbage.html

 

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/68325-upr-suspension-products-not-up-to-par/

 

http://www.macombdaily.com/20080918/lawsuit-alleges-defective-car-part-played-part-in-fatal-accident

 

http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FDCO%2020110208A37

 

If I was hovering over the add to cart button on a UPR part, these stories would be in my mind. If I'm hovering over the button on MM/Team Z, that's not the case. I hope that clarifies my reasoning to buy what I did a bit more.

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some turbo kits require more space down there in order to get all the tubing in.  Weight does help with fuel economy as well.   working on anything under the engine too is 1000x easier.  SO much more room to put your hands and more tool space.  its great.

1000x though? J/k good points carry on
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working on anything under the engine too is 1000x easier

 

This is the reason my boat anchor is coming out. When I pulled the headers the last time to mod them a bit and have them re-coated, my mind was made up to ditch the stock junk.

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I'm not saying every person has issues with UPR, but I would never give them my money. I've read many times about them ripping off other companies' designs and undercutting them with sub-par quality. As someone who works in the design industry, that strikes a chord with me because I know first hand what it takes to develop and get a product to market, only to have someone rip it off and take your business (it has happened to our company several times). Yes you can patent your design, but there are many ways to find loopholes around patents. I for one will never support a company that rips off other companies' hard work, I don't care if the shit is free, they can keep it.

 

Here are a few examples of people with bad experiences with UPR, like I said there are many people out there who have never had an issue with their UPR parts but I don't see things like this regarding Team Z or MM parts.

 

http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/1101501-upr-arm-%3D-garbage.html

 

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/68325-upr-suspension-products-not-up-to-par/

 

http://www.macombdaily.com/20080918/lawsuit-alleges-defective-car-part-played-part-in-fatal-accident

 

http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FDCO%2020110208A37

 

If I was hovering over the add to cart button on a UPR part, these stories would be in my mind. If I'm hovering over the button on MM/Team Z, that's not the case. I hope that clarifies my reasoning to buy what I did a bit more.

Makes perfect sense to me why you chose the way you did! 

 

 

But I still kinda bring back up the amount of products bought, do you think MM/Team Z have the same amount of product out on the roads as their other competitors that are priced lower? 

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Makes perfect sense to me why you chose the way you did! 

 

 

But I still kinda bring back up the amount of products bought, do you think MM/Team Z have the same amount of product out on the roads as their other competitors that are priced lower? 

 

That's kinda the point.  People keep cheaping out and rebuying the same stuff over and over again.  I'll dig up the pictures of the QA1 if I still have them and compare them to the MM.  There's a noticeable difference in quality and design.  The MM K member I have must have been on of their firsts because some of the welds are meh, but the thing is stout and obviously designed to take a beating.

 

EDIT:

 

Maximum Motorsports

308950CE-30A8-453C-BF8E-95FA2E7DEAFC_zps

 

QA1

9E746200-81A8-4DC7-8AD3-E9A852F1FE63_zps

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"You get what you pay for" is a common saying I've head.

 

I bought a Ferrari, 1 out of 1000 burn up for a complete loss. 

 

I thought I bought a top of the line machine?

 

 

Ok, so now I buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee, 13 out of 1,500,000 started on fire from the rear gas tank recall.  

 

 

I realize that's apples to oranges here though

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Makes perfect sense to me why you chose the way you did! 

 

 

But I still kinda bring back up the amount of products bought, do you think MM/Team Z have the same amount of product out on the roads as their other competitors that are priced lower? 

 

Of course they don't, the average Joe sees cheap and hits BUY. Simple as that. There are WAY more people with ~$200 to spend, than $500+

 

Do I think XXR wheels are pieces of shit? Nope, they're great looking wheels. Are they even in the same world as CCW/HRE/Iforged/True Forged? Not even close. But each has their place.

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@Blackmage by quirks it isn't so much issue of quality, its just how they're designed and the stuff they don't inform you for install like the need of offset bushings. I ran into issues with lack of adjustment but I chalk that up to my car being tweaked in the front. As far as quality issues all the welds look awesome and I've never once heard of any quality complaints

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Sometimes you have to chalk up the fact that you're never going to get a straight answer. There's too many unknown variables in play, variables that we could never possibly figure out. Some may use Chinese metal, some may use USA metal. Some companies build process may be better then others ie company A may gig and lock all the pieces in while welding while company B may just throw it together and weld the fuck out it causing warpage. Metal thickness. Involved design engineering.

At the end of the day you're only going to be able to make the best educated decision based on what he said or what she said. But if this helps, I'm going to buy suspension parts from someone who makes suspension parts not someone who makes shiney brushed aluminum interior accent pieces.

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earlier I had a conversation with you guys in regards to @opal95's stiffler system where everything had hind joints, because not everything is the same.  Who's not to say that @Psychorugby's or @det_riots cars are tweaked in some way that theirs did not quite fit.  I think Bryan's had other issues, but still.  

 

 

 

That be clevis joint completely different from a hiem joint lol. The main reason there used is because the spider system has to be removable to be able to pull the trans, drop the exhaust ect. Another reason is not every frame is identical so a tad bit of adjustability is welcome when it come to installing them.

 

As far a kmembers go I went with the teamz autox because of it having extra gussets welded in, being mine will be used on the street I wanted that added strength without the extra weight the MM k has. Most of the K's on the market are drag oriented and not very well made for street driving. I dont think I would actually trust any of the other K's on the street. Fitment of some of the lesser quality K's have a bit to be desired also. Don't get me wrong every aftermarket K has the possibility of failure just like any other part made. You might get lucky and get a Wednesday K or you might be unlucky and get a Monday K lol. All in all, if its cheap its cheap for a reason... other than that its only your life riding on that Chinese tubing you make the choice lol 

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Sometimes you have to chalk up the fact that you're never going to get a straight answer. There's too many unknown variables in play, variables that we could never possibly figure out. Some may use Chinese metal, some may use USA metal. Some companies build process may be better then others ie company A may gig and lock all the pieces in while welding while company B may just throw it together and weld the fuck out it causing warpage. Metal thickness. Involved design engineering.

At the end of the day you're only going to be able to make the best educated decision based on what he said or what she said. But if this helps, I'm going to buy suspension parts from someone who makes suspension parts not someone who makes shiney brushed aluminum interior accent pieces.

 

1604737_10151793469131841_569507218_n_zp

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It lacks motor mounts though ;)

Motor mounts are an optional add on. This was what I was going to buy before the deal on MM cropped up.

QA1 weighs in at 22lbs. It is super light in comparison to the MM which is only 2lbs lighter than stock. MM is lights years ahead in construction.

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as Rich said, you have to first figure out what your goal is.  Most of those k's are designed for drag racing (UPR, QA1, PA racing, AJE, team z).  they are going to be less structurally strong as they don't have to take the abuse that goes with street or track racing.  they are designed to hold the engine and reduce weight.  that kooks one looks like it was made with the sole purpose of fitting 3" headers, nothing more.  

 

now when you get down to the beef versions or track oriented ones you have Steeda, kenny brown, griggs, MM, and Team Z autox.  all these are more stoutly built and have increased strength in their welds and design.  i put steeda and KB together as they utilize a box frame design.  That steeda one looks like it weighs just as much as the stock k.  it's been a while since i've seen the griggs one but i can tell you it doesn't look as strong as the mm or team z; both of which have added strength from gussets. 

 

to me, it's a clear short list between MM and team Z autox because of the purpose of my car which is primarily street driven but built to hopefully get into a track down the road.  

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