A Slow Build: College Kid's 1994 Mustang - Engine and Transmission are in the Car!!!

[95riosnake]

Really hope you get your money back, people like him give online selling a bad rap.

[BrettNorton]

Alright!  Finally, the school semester is over, I'm on winter break, and I've gotten the money saved up to build an engine for my 1994 Mustang!  Before building the engine though, I spent the last few days with my grandpa cleaning out his shop and wiring up some fluorescent lights.  It will be the perfect place to work on the Mustang over the next few years.

 

 

Anyway, what I have here is a 5.0 302 long block that came out of a 1997 Ford Explorer.  It's a roller block with the GT40P heads.  I paid $500 for the engine at that Midwest Mustang junkyard, and they removed everything from it except for the rotating assembly, the oil pan, pump, and pickup tube, the cylinder heads, valves, and valve springs.  That's good for me since the block, heads, and rotating assembly is all I plan on reusing.  Every other part of the engine will be new.

 

 

Now for what kind of condition this engine is in...

 

 

Upon first inspection of when I got the engine, I noticed right away that there was a shit ton of red gasket sealer all over the decks of both the block and the heads.  I was able to scrape most of the sealer off with a razor blade, but I won't be surprised if the block and heads will need to be milled 0.020 over because of this.

 

I also noticed that all of the cylinders were dry (no oil or any other crap inside of them), except for cylinder #7.  Cylinder #7 had some sludge built up inside of it.  I'll explain more about that later.

 

As for the heads, one of them has an intake manifold bolt that was broken off inside of it.  Some of the bolt is still sticking out of the head, and I believe that with enough PB blaster and careful handling, I'll be able to get rid of it.  Other than that broken bolt and some crap inside the water jackets (probably that old gasket sealer), the heads and valves look to be in pretty good shape.

 

I got around to tearing the engine down all the way to the block today.  All of the pistons looked pretty good except for piston #7.  Not only was it difficult to remove compared to the other pistons, but it had some sludge on top of it, and the skirt had a few little scratches along the side.  Same thing with the corresponding cylinder #7.  Some sludge and scratches along the cylinder wall.  Sadly, I think this block might be due for a 0.030 over bore job.  And of course, that means I might have to buy new 0.030 over pistons as well.

 

 

Other than the damage sustained at cylinder #7, everything else in the short block looked pretty good.  Piston rings, crankshaft, main and rod bearings, every other cylinder, all of that stuff looked pretty normal, just showing some wear and tear.

 

The next step of this whole engine process is to get all of the parts to a good machine shop.  Obviously, the block and heads need to be boiled and checked for cracks, and the crankshaft will need a good polishing.  Something will have to be done about cylinder #7.  Maybe the cylinders just need a good hone job and they'll be good to go.  Maybe I can do something about all that gasket sealer before milling the heads.  Maybe I can remove that broken bolt myself.  Maybe I've just bought a complete nightmare that will eat up a whole bunch of time and money.  Either way, I'll find out once all these engine parts make their way to a machine shop.

Edited July 28, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

December 2015,

 

Today, I worked on the cylinder heads.  They're the 4-bar GT40P heads that came on all 96-01 5.0 Ford Explorers.  From what I've been researching, these GT40P heads outflow the stock E7 Mustang heads by a pretty noticeable amount (supposedly a 20-40 HP gain).  Anyway, I pulled the valves and valve springs out of the heads.

 

First off, if you ever decide to remove valve springs from any heads, don't go out getting one of those cheap little gear puller-looking valve spring compressors.  I bought one and it sucked ass.  I had to spend too much time to position it right, I had difficulty tightening it up, and once the spring was finally compressed, I still had o space to remove those little keepers that hold the valve in place.  Instead, go out and rent one of those bigger valve spring compressors that looks like a giant C-clamp.  With that type of valve spring compressor, there was so much more adjustability that I was able to remove all of the valves and valve springs from the heads in about an hour.

 

 

I also removed all of the old valve stem seals.  They were just old, and they went in the trash.

 

Everything about the valves looks to be in pretty good shape.  The stems look perfect, the guides left very very very little play in the valves, and all of the seats on both the heads and the valves themselves look real nice and shiny.

 

I think I'm just going to lap the valves back into place with some valve grinding compound and one of those little suction cup tools.  As for the valve springs though, they'll be going in the trash.  From what I've heard, those stock GT40P valve springs don't hold up to a higher-lift cam very well.  I'll be putting a TFS1 cam in this motor, so I'll need to install some heavier valve springs on the heads to hold up to it reliably.

 

Now I've got nice bare GT40P head castings almost ready for the machine shop.  I still have to remove a broken bolt that's stuck in one of the heads.

Edited July 28, 2016 by BrettNorton

[Tabres]

Nice progress!  Looking forward to seeing more!

 

I can totally echo your comments on cheap spring compressors.  They're a waste of time and money.  I just wish the parts stores rented out ones that were usable on 4V's.  The heads are so deep that a typical cam-in-block style compressor doesn't work on 4V heads.  I wound up having to buy my own.

[BrettNorton]

Something else that I'm still needing to do before I go to the machine shop, is to get the cam bearings knocked out of the block.  Obviously, I'm going to need a special cam bearing tool to get rid of those old cam bearings.  However, I don't think it's going to be very easy since I'm working with a Ford motor here.

 

On Summit Racing, I've seen a few cheaper cam bearing tools that are only about $30 or so.  They're only for Chevy 350 motors though.  I'm going to need one of those more expensive universal cam bearing tools for this Ford 302 motor.  I can admit that I don't want to pay more than $100 for a tool that I'm only going to use twice (removing old cam bearings and installing new ones), and I don't want to make the machine shop deal with the cam bearing issue.

 

So yesterday, I went around to local parts stores to see if they would rent me one of those universal cam bearing tools.  None of the big 3 parts stores (Advance Auto, Auto Zone, O'Reilly's) even had the tool in stock, so I drove to a Car Quest warehouse in Kansas City with a bunch of parts and tools in stock.  I asked them about renting a universal cam bearing tool.  They did have it in stock, but it was only available for purchase, no renting.  The price though?  Well over $300.  Now, I definitely want to remove the old cam bearings myself, but not so badly that I'll have to pay over $300 for it.

 

Sadly, I think the machine shop is going to have to deal with those cam bearings.

[Blackmage]

I doubt the machine shop will charge you much to pull the cam bearings out and out new ones in, along with the rest of the work they may have to perform. I wouldn't sweat it man!

Sent from my iPhablet

[BrettNorton]

@Blackmage

 

So far, the jobs I have lined up for the machine shop are:

 

-Remove cam bearings and oil galley plugs

-Boil / magnaflux block and heads

-0.030" over bore to the cylinders (I'll buy new pistons and rings to match)

-Mill block and possibly heads

-Remove broken intake manifold bolt from one of the heads

-Polish crankshaft

-(Possibly) Install screw-in oil galley plugs on the front of the engine

 

 

 

@Evilcw311

[BrettNorton]

December 2015,

 

I got around to knocking the freeze plugs out of the block today.  They look grimy and muddy, just like any average old freeze plugs.  They'll be replaced with brass freeze plugs.  I'll leave it up to the machine shop concerning what to do with the oil galley plugs.

 

 

For anybody wondering about it, I got better pictures of the boo-boo in cylinder #7.  As you can see from the pics, the cylinder wall is a little rusty, sludgy, and scuffed up.  Also, the rings of piston #7 are cemented in the ring grooves.  Unlike the rings of all other pistons, #7's rings won't move or rotate at all.  They're stuck.  I'm pretty sure a 0.030" over bore, plus new matching pistons and rings, will fix this issue.

 

Edited July 28, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

December 2015,

 

I got around to taking the engine parts to a local machine shop yesterday.  The shop is pretty reputable, but needless to say, they're wanting to do much more work to the engine than I think is necessary.  Now I know I'm not a machinist and probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I mean, they're wanting to go the whole 9 yards with this thing.  My confidence in building this engine has been greatly shaken.

 

 

At first, I thought the crankshaft was in pretty good shape and that it could be usable again with just a little polishing.  NOPE.  Turns out that the exposed copper on both the main and the rod bearings means that the crankshaft needs to be reground, not just polished.  And of course, that means the connecting rods have to be resized and the mains have to be align honed.  The pistons will obviously need to be replaced, but some special process is needed to separate them from the rods.  These stock rods that I've got have those press-fit wrist pins holding the whole assembly together.  Also, I already mentioned this, but the block does need a 0.030" over bore due to the damage in cylinder #7, and both deck surfaces need to be milled because of all the old gasket sealer smeared all over them.

 

As for the heads, again, the machine shop is wanting me to put more money and work into them than what I think they're worth.  They're just old iron GT40P heads, but I mean the machine shop is talking a complete 3-angle valve job, new valves, and new valve guides.  Not to mention that the mating surfaces of the heads need milling because of, once again, old gasket sealer is smeared all over them.

 

 

The machine shop wants about $2500 for all the work they want to do.  $1500 for the block work, $500 for the rotating assembly, and $500 for the heads.  That's not even for any parts, it's just labor.  I told them that I would think about the prices and everything, and took all of the engine parts back home with me.

 

Now, $2500 probably isn't too much money, and I'm probably stressing out over prices that I shouldn't be stressing out over.  See my problem though, is that I'm on a pretty tight budget here.  The initial purchase of the long block, plus the machine work means that I'm going to have nearly $3000 in this motor before I even start buying new parts and begin assembly.  Plus another thing that irritates me is that by the time all the machine work is finished and the engine is assembled and running, it's probably not going to make more than 300 HP or so.

 

I've been researching my other options in the past few hours, and a 5.0Resto short block and one of those SVE top end kits (both on Late Model Restoration) are both beginning to look real appealing to me.  Both don't seem all that expensive, both would probably make a decent amount of power, and they would take all of the machining and guesswork out of this whole equation here.  But then of course I have to ask the question, "Duh, what kind of quality am I getting with these cheaper parts?  Duh, are they gonna break on me and not function properly, making me have to spend twice as much as I should have to?"

 

Long story short, I don't know what to do here.  I'm admitting that I don't think I have the money to build this engine, even if it's just a "budget" street motor.  Should I just suck it up and go through with the machine work?  Should I return the long block back to that Midwest Mustang place to try and get my money back?  Should I buy one of those 5.0Resto short blocks and just build it up from there?  Should I just abandon this whole project altogether since I clearly don't have the money for it?  I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!! 

[Zach]

2,500 for labor is fair that's about what I paid to have My engine built. As the saying goes cheap, fast, and reliable but you can only get 2 of the 3. Just save up and do it right the first time. Also I do believe that the late model short blocks are a good deal, but I'd rather deal with someone local in case something happens and it needs to be warranted like in my case of my engine eating itself within a month. But since they were local I took it up to them and they built it again free of charge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BrettNorton]

January 2016,

 

This past week, I've been rethinking the plans that I have for this 302 engine I've got here.

 

The first thing that I've realized is that those old iron GT40P heads have to go.  With the initial purchase price, machine work, new valves and guides, and stronger valve springs, I would have about $1000 in a set of iron heads.  I'm wanting to make 300-350 HP or so with this engine.  I could be wrong about this, but I don't think those GT40P heads will make the cut.  So, I'll be waiting a few months to buy a better set of aluminum heads (I'm thinking some Trick Flow heads) for a bit more $$$.  I'll probably sell those GT40P heads on Craigslist or something.

 

The block I'll keep, and have all of the necessary machine work done to make it usable again.  Get it washed, 0.030" over bore, mill deck 0.010" under, install new freeze / oil galley plugs, install new cam bearings.  OK, that shouldn't be too expensive. 

 

The rotating assembly looks to be junk.  The block needs to be bored 0.030" over, so I can't reuse the pistons.  The connecting rods are still in pretty good shape, but they've still got the old stock rod bolts, and they've got those press-fit wrist pins in them.  I don't think they would be worth the work.  And finally, the crankshaft is a wee bit scratched on all of the main and rod journals, so all of those would need to be reground.  I think I'll just turn in the rotating assembly parts as cores, or junk parts.

 

In place of the old rotating assembly, I plan on buying a new rotating assembly.  Stock replacement parts with:

 

-Eagle 3.00" stroke cast crankshaft

-Eagle 5.090" connecting rods w/ ARP rod bolts

-Speed Pro hypereutectic flat-top pistons w/ rings

-Clevite P-series main and rod bearings

 

The price of all those parts came in to about $800.  I think I could install everything myself with the decent amount of tools and knowledge that I've got.

 

"Alright!"  I thought to myself.  "I think I'm getting this engine figured out!  With the rotating assembly, a 0.040" head gasket, and a 58 cc head, I'll have a 0.041" quench and a static compression of 9.4:1!  Perfect for a mild street engine running pump gas!"

 

With the old short block and the new knowledge in mind, I made my way to a new (to me) local machine shop.  One that, from what I've heard, doesn't charge as much $$$ as the shop I previously visited.

[BrettNorton]

January 2016,

 

Yesterday, I called up another machine shop to schedule a consultation / plan for the Ford 302 motor that I've got.  Today, I visited said machine shop with the old short block and the knowledge of what I wanted to do to it.

 

I met with the shop owner who I'll call Sean.  I pretty much told him exactly what I said in my previous post.  "I'm wanting to build a mild 302 engine for the street," I said.  "I'm shooting for around 300-350 HP with about 9.4:1 compression so that it will run on pump gas.  I'm planning on buying new rotating assembly parts and assembling the engine myself.  I just need you to do the machine work to the block so that it's usable again."

 

Well, long story short, Sean pretty much shot down all of the ideas and aspirations that I have for this engine.  Specifically, my desire to build the short block myself with new rotating assembly parts.  I'm paraphrasing this, but here is a basic idea of how the conversation went.  You guys might find it interesting:

 

 

Sean:  "Alright Brett, well how many motors have you built?

Brett:  "Um, zero...  But I've been researching how to do it, measurements to take, buying tools for it, and things to look out for, for many many months."

Sean:  "Ha!  I get customers like you here all the time.  Guys that research how to build a motor for a little while, and then instantly think they can do it themselves without a problem."

Brett:  "What, are you saying that I shouldn't be building this short block myself?"

Sean:  "Yes I am!"

Brett:  "Well, OK I'll take your word for it.  But why shouldn't I be doing it myself?"

Sean:  "Two reasons."

Brett:  "What are they?"

Sean:  "First, think of the difference between me and you.  I've been building motors for almost 20 years now.  You've only done a little research about the subject.  I KNOW what I'm doing.  You only THINK you know what you're doing.  I've got all the right parts, tools, and know-how needed to build this short block the right way.  You don't have any of those things."

Brett: "Hmmmm...  Well, OK then.  What's the second reason?"

Sean:  "Now then, let's just say that I do my machine work to the block you've got, you buy your own parts, and you try to assemble that short block yourself.  Well what if you run into a problem?  What if something doesn't look or seem right to you?  Who are you going to blame for that problem you've run into?"

Brett:  "Errrr...  You, Sean..."

Sean:  "Exactly...  I've had that same goddamn thing happen to me so many times, that I just build the short blocks myself instead of letting some dumbass do it, then complain to me and the whole world when any little thing goes wrong for him.  If I build that short block, I'll know that it's built right, and you'll be OBLIGATED to know that it's built right.  Either you have me build that short block the right way, or you get your ass out of here and find another shop to do the work for you."     

Brett:  "Welp,  OK Sean.  Now I'm feeling obligated to have you build a short block out of this engine for me, instead of just doing some machine work to it."

 

 

Because Sean doesn't work in a giant building and has many good Ford 302 engine parts lying around his shop, he should be able to get the job done for about $1000 or so.  He said that he would have the short block assembled and ready to go in about a week or two.

Edited July 28, 2016 by BrettNorton

[Zach]

I'm glad you found someone who would do it for you, he sounds a little arrogant but hopefully he does good work. Are you shooting for 300-350 rwhp or flywheel horsepower just curious?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[95riosnake]

I agree the guy needs to work on the people skills a bit but at the same time, sometimes people need to hear the harsh reality. You're not one of the "dumbasses" he was referring to (which is why I said he should work on the people skills) but I'm sure he has many of them come through the doors.

 

$1k for his work isn't bad at all, have you seen any other engines he has built, or read any reviews of his past work?

[Prokiller]

only thing i would say though is if you have to get new pistons and crank and all this machine work, have you looked into doing a stroker instead?  a 331 or 347 are really not much more than a stock build.  granted it's hard to beat $1000 but you might be able to do a stroker for not much more.

[Venmous28]

 

 

 

Sean:  "Alright Brett, well how many motors have you built?

Brett:  "Um, zero...  But I've been researching how to do it, measurements to take, buying tools for it, and things to look out for, for many many months."

Sean:  "Ha!  I get customers like you here all the time.  Guys that research how to build a motor for a little while, and then instantly think they can do it themselves without a problem."

Brett:  "What, are you saying that I shouldn't be building this short block myself?"

Sean:  "Yes I am!"

 

 

I don't post much at all, but this got to me. I do agree with the others that it seems as he is trying to help (while making money..) but there is no reason why you can't build a mild 302. 

 

I have only built one motor, the one in my car. While in college. The one with 60k miles of dependable boosted at 16psi and 440/440 at the wheels power, with a 2v.  It seems like you're in good hands but I don't think I would have said "sure, take my money" after a convo like that.

[Tabres]

I can kind of understand where the guy is coming from.  His points have some validity to them (I am by no means calling you a dumbass like this guy said, Brett or implying that you couldn't do it.  After all, no one "can" until they try for the first time)  It sounds to me like he has probably gotten burned a few times and is tired of it.  Personally, he sounds like the exact type of person I would want putting my junk together.

 

Typically the assembly itself costs so little anyway.  I think the labor cost on the assembly for my shortblock was like $150.

[BrettNorton]

I'm glad you found someone who would do it for you, he sounds a little arrogant but hopefully he does good work. Are you shooting for 300-350 rwhp or flywheel horsepower just curious?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I'm shooting for 300-350 RWHP with some aluminum heads.  I've heard of the mild cam, GT40P heads, better intake and exhaust combo making around 300 flywheel HP, but I just don't think that old iron heads are worth the money that the machine shop wants to work on them.  

 

 

I agree the guy needs to work on the people skills a bit but at the same time, sometimes people need to hear the harsh reality. You're not one of the "dumbasses" he was referring to (which is why I said he should work on the people skills) but I'm sure he has many of them come through the doors.

 

$1k for his work isn't bad at all, have you seen any other engines he has built, or read any reviews of his past work?

 

I haven't seen any of Sean's engines, nor have I found any reviews on the work he does.

 

 

only thing i would say though is if you have to get new pistons and crank and all this machine work, have you looked into doing a stroker instead?  a 331 or 347 are really not much more than a stock build.  granted it's hard to beat $1000 but you might be able to do a stroker for not much more.

 

I have briefly considered building up a stroker engine instead of just a 306 engine.  I just fear the "extra" things that I have to consider when building one of those stroker engines.  I'll look into it some more. 

 

 

I don't post much at all, but this got to me. I do agree with the others that it seems as he is trying to help (while making money..) but there is no reason why you can't build a mild 302. 

 

I have only built one motor, the one in my car. While in college. The one with 60k miles of dependable boosted at 16psi and 440/440 at the wheels power, with a 2v.  It seems like you're in good hands but I don't think I would have said "sure, take my money" after a convo like that.

 

Like everyone else, I also think Sean's wrong when he says that I can't build an engine myself.  I've got hands, arms, legs, and a brain.  I can do math.  I'm sure that I can ...  scratch that ... I KNOW that I can build an engine on my own.

 

Granted, the process won't go as quick and easy for me as it would go for a machinist, but I don't care how long it takes for me to build the engine myself.  That's one of the great things about project cars.  They only take up as much time and money as you choose.

 

BTW that's insane that you built your first engine (a 400+ HP engine at that) while in college.

[BrettNorton]

Honestly, I truly TRULY want to build the short block and the entire engine myself.  I know that engine work done by me isn't NEAR the quality of work done by an expert machinist.  Even so, I feel like I've got a reasonable amount of tools and know-how to build a mild 302 engine, and I also want to have the feeling of knowing that I built an engine myself.

 

Hell, I'm even contemplating SELLING that 302 short block when I get it back from Sean.  The GT40P heads, I'll probably just lap the valves in them, put on some Trick Flow valve springs, and sell them as is.  Selling the long block for what I have into it might put me at a bit of a financial loss, but not much of one.

 

For me, there's a problem with selling the rebuilt short block, the GT40P heads, and starting over.  The problem is that next week (January 19 to be exact), my winter break will be over with and I'll be back in school.  While I'm in school, yeah, I'll still have time to order parts and put the engine together.  But I WON'T, however, have much time, if any, to meet with potential buyers, to search through junk yards and Craigslist for a good core, or to deal with YET ANOTHER machine shop.  Trying to do any of those things while I'm in school would be a MAJOR PITA, and one thing that I don't want this Mustang project to be is a PITA.  I'm supposed to be enjoying it.

 

There are only 2 options I can think of which would let me assemble the engine myself, but both of them have their cons.  Both will involve me selling the short block and GT40P heads, and needing to purchase a new block and rotating assembly.

 

 

My first option is to buy one of those DIY short blocks from FordStrokers.  All of the parts would be clearanced and matched together, I would just have to assemble everything.  The problem for me with the FordStrokers route, is that it seems a little too expensive and high-end for my tastes (if that makes any sense).  I don't need forged pistons, I don't need a forged stroker crankshaft.  I would LOVE to have the machine work done by FordStrokers, but I don't need anything fancy from them either.  Another problem is that I have to supply / ship them a block to build off of, which would, again, be a PITA.

 

My other (less expensive) option is to buy one of those Summit Racing 347 blocks and build off of that.  Those Summit Racing blocks start out as roller 302 blocks that are then bored 0.030" over, clearanced for a 347 stroker rotating assembly, decked, line bored, everything that would have to be done to reuse a block again.  Then I would buy an Eagle rotating assembly with stock replacement parts, including Clevite bearings, flat-top hypereutectic pistons, stock replacement rods w/ ARP rod bolts, and a cast steel crankshaft.  All of that stuff wouldn't be too expensive for me either.  The problem with the Summit Racing route though, is that I don't exactly trust the quality of the block right out of the box.  I could order the block and rotating assembly and verify all of the measurements and clearances, but what if one of those measurements / clearances is off?  What will I have to do about that?  Consult a machine shop again?  A machine shop that I don't have the time to deal with?

 

 

I'm at another one of those "don't know what to do" stages again.  I'm stalling.

[Zach]

I'm shooting for 300-350 RWHP with some aluminum heads. I've heard of the mild cam, GT40P heads, better intake and exhaust combo making around 300 flywheel HP, but I just don't think that old iron heads are worth the money that the machine shop wants to work on them.

I haven't seen any of Sean's engines, nor have I found any reviews on the work he does.

I have briefly considered building up a stroker engine instead of just a 306 engine. I just fear the "extra" things that I have to consider when building one of those stroker engines. I'll look into it some more.

Like everyone else, I also think Sean's wrong when he says that I can't build an engine myself. I've got hands, arms, legs, and a brain. I can do math. I'm sure that I can ... scratch that ... I KNOW that I can build an engine on my own.

Granted, the process won't go as quick and easy for me as it would go for a machinist, but I don't care how long it takes for me to build the engine myself. That's one of the great things about project cars. They only take up as much time and money as you choose.

BTW that's insane that you built your first engine (a 400+ HP engine at that) while in college.

well not trying to shoot you down but I don't think you will make that much rwhp on a 302 with box stock mild aluminum heads. My 331 with tfs 170 cnc'd heads with a custom cam ported intake and other supporting stuff struggles to make 350 rwhp on a dynojet, I think the last time I had it one there it made 341 with 28* timing and on a mustang dyno it made 313 with no other changes. So not trying to shoot you down just trying to let you know what to expect.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm shooting for 300-350 RWHP with some aluminum heads. I've heard of the mild cam, GT40P heads, better intake and exhaust combo making around 300 flywheel HP, but I just don't think that old iron heads are worth the money that the machine shop wants to work on them.

I haven't seen any of Sean's engines, nor have I found any reviews on the work he does.

I have briefly considered building up a stroker engine instead of just a 306 engine. I just fear the "extra" things that I have to consider when building one of those stroker engines. I'll look into it some more.

Like everyone else, I also think Sean's wrong when he says that I can't build an engine myself. I've got hands, arms, legs, and a brain. I can do math. I'm sure that I can ... scratch that ... I KNOW that I can build an engine on my own.

Granted, the process won't go as quick and easy for me as it would go for a machinist, but I don't care how long it takes for me to build the engine myself. That's one of the great things about project cars. They only take up as much time and money as you choose.

BTW that's insane that you built your first engine (a 400+ HP engine at that) while in college.

well not trying to shoot you down but I don't think you will make that much rwhp on a 302 with box stock mild aluminum heads. My 331 with tfs 170 cnc'd heads with a custom cam ported intake and other supporting stuff struggles to make 350 rwhp on a dynojet, I think the last time I had it one there it made 341 with 28* timing and on a mustang dyno it made 313 with no other changes. So not trying to shoot you down just trying to let you know what to expect.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BrettNorton]

February 2016,

 

Grrrr...  It's been a month since I dropped the engine off at Sean's machine shop.  I haven't heard anything back from him.  I'm dedicated to not bothering Sean about it and letting him focus on his work.

 

I put those GT40P heads back together and have them posted for sale on Craigslist.

 

Other than that, no real updates.  Still waiting on Sean and the engine...

Edited July 28, 2016 by BrettNorton

[ttocs]

reading up it sounds like part of the experience of building it yourself was to learn about it and to know more then when you started?  I can understand this but knowing my limits I would not tackle this with out someone that knew what they were doing to help me or more the the point teach me.  If that is the case with you have you considered asking how much they would charge to let you watch/learn/ask questions while its being done?  It could be as easy as buying some beers/pizza, or maybe a few $$$ but you would get to see the work done, learn from a pro and maybe get him to get moving on it as well.

[BrettNorton]

February 2016,

 

Seeing the machine work done is something that I would love to do.  If I'm going to learn about machine work though, Sean's NOT the guy to teach me.  I've only interacted with him for an hour or so, and I can already tell he doesn't have the patience to teach me shit.  He's got a bunch of other motors that he needs to work on, and he's not going to take precious time out of his day to teach me about the what he does.  If I ever need any more machine shop jobs done or want to learn about the machine work itself, I'm going to another shop.  Once Sean finishes that short block and I pay him, he's not getting any more of my business.  I'm paying him for advice and machine work.  Not to insult me on my "inability" to build an engine.

 

Considering that Sean's had my engine for a month, I called him today to ask on the progress of it.  Sean said that he got the block and crank all cleaned and polished up respectively.  The block has been bored 0.030" over, he's got the new pistons and rings to match, the new cam bearings are installed, and all the new freeze / oil galley plugs are installed.  What's holding Sean up is that he doesn't have the new rod bolts yet. He has to wait for those bolts until he can size the rods to fit the crank, then he'll press the pistons onto the rods.  Once the pistons / rods are done, he'll balance the rotating assembly and get the short block put together. 

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

GODDAMMIT!!!  FINALLY!!!  The machine work for the engine is finally finished up!  Hopefully…

 

 

 

Obviously, I’ve been on a long hiatus from posting in this thread.  In that hiatus, I was dealing with / waiting on 2 different machine shops.  I didn’t want to post here droning on and on about my difficulties of dealing with said 2 shops.  Everyone would get tired of that real quickly.  So, I’ll tell the whole story about my lack of progress now.

The first machine shop I dealt with back in January was run by a guy named Sean, AKA an asshole machinist / engine builder.  He said that I couldn’t build an engine since I don’t have 20 years of engine-building experience behind me.  Sean INSISTED that I let him build the short block, so out of fear and time constraints, I let him do so.

I got the short block back from Sean on January 29, about 3 weeks after I first gave it to him.  He charged me $1000 for his services.  I hauled the short block home, tore it apart (yeah yeah, smart move, I know), and I’ll admit, I was pretty disappointed.  I wasn’t disappointed with Sean’s machine work though, it was real nice.  All the measurements and clearances in the block checked out perfectly, the rotating assembly turned over easily, and the whole short block was coated for rust resistance.  No, what I was disappointed with was Sean’s choice of parts in that short block.

The pistons that Sean put in the motor were just basic cast pistons.  Not hypereutectic pistons like I had asked for.  The front oil galley plugs were just the press-in type (just like mini freeze plugs) instead of the screw-in type.  And what disappointed me most was that Sean never replaced the rod bolts in the stock connecting rods that he reused.

Now, the LOGICAL (more time-and-money-consuming) move would have been to haul that short block back to Sean’s shop and give him hell for building it the way he did.  But I never did that since I didn’t want to see Sean again (shut up, I can already hear some of you screaming at me for giving my money / business to Sean).  What I decided to do instead was order my own pistons, rods, and plugs (like I wanted to do in the first place), and find another machine shop to help me with whatever machine work would be needed.

I ordered the new engine parts and right away found another shop one town away from me.  A machine shop called Rich’s Custom Engines in Basehor, KS.  The owner, a man by the name of Rich Carle, was, for lack of a better word, FRIGGIN’ AWESOME!!!  I told Rich the whole story about the bowl of anus pus known as Sean, my plan for the engine build that I’m doing, and my desire to build the engine myself.  Rich actually listened to all of my ideas and the overall plan, while at the same time, offering input of his own.

When I was talking about Sean, Rich mentioned that Sean is probably what might be referred to as a “mass engine rebuilder.”  As in, Sean probably just rebuilds engines to factory specs for vehicles that simply need to get back on the road, and the work always needs to be done cheaply and quickly (which helps explain Sean’s cheap parts usage and how he got the short block built so quickly).  Sean probably doesn’t deal with people very much.  Most of his business probably comes from generic auto repair shops whenever they get an order for an engine rebuild.  Nothing’s wrong with the kind of business that Sean’s running, it’s just not the kind of business I need to help with my engine build.

Rich however, runs a different kind of business than Sean.  Rich builds “custom” engines.  Engines that are built FAR from stock specifications.  Most of Rich’s business comes from building engines for dirt track cars.  In other words, RACE ENGINES.  So if this guy Rich could build wild race motors like he regularly does, then he could certainly build a mild street motor like mine.

What I liked most about dealing with Rich was that whenever I visited his shop (we consulted about things several times), we would always get off topic and into long conversations about stuff.  Rich’s 25+ years of machine work, the 2 Ford Thunderbirds that he owns (Rich daily drives a Turbo Coupe and is building a dual-quad 393W for his 86 Thunderbird), his hatred for Ford’s modular motors, engine tech in general, etc.  Unlike Sean, who thought it was best that I knew less about engine building / tech, Rich actually wanted to teach me the things that he knew about machining, building, and running an engine.  I could tell that Rich clearly enjoys talking about and doing what he does, even though he works his ass off.  I wanted to give my business to this guy.

So, on March 9, I dropped all of the engine parts off at Rich’s shop so that he could do his work.  Yesterday on May 19, more than two months after I first gave the engine to him, I finally got the engine back from Rich, and he charged me only $200 for the work that he did to the block and rotating assembly.  Sure, Rich had the motor for quite a while, but he’s busy as hell all the time since he does such good work.  Rich and I loaded up the motor, and he said that I could come back to his shop any time for advice, more engine work, etc.  I thanked Rich so much for his business, and said that I would come back to his shop once I get the cylinder heads for my engine.

I made my way home, unloaded all of the engine parts, and bagged them up for storage.

 

 

 

I would love to be able to tackle this short block right now, but final exams at school are a higher priority than this engine build.  After finals are finished, my next step in the build here is painting the block.  I've got everything I need for painting, and more engine parts are on the way.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

The machine work that Sean did to the block seemed to be top-notch as far as I could tell.  The cylinder bores all measured out at just a little over 4.030” so that a set of 4.030” pistons will fit in there with just a little clearance.  The decks of the block were cleaned up, possibly milled.  Sean also installed new steel freeze plugs, new cam bearings, and new press-in oil galley plugs.  And finally, the outside of the block was painted black and all of the bores and sealing surfaces were coated in some sort of oil, both for rust resistance.

 

 

 

Rich did a few things to the block as well.  First, because of piston-to-wall clearance issues, Rich had to slightly hone the cylinders out so that they would accept the new pistons.  Secondly, Rich installed a new set of screw-in oil galley plugs in the front of the block.  They won’t pop out and toast the motor like the press-in oil galley plugs that Sean used.  Also, it appears that Rich ran a thread chaser through most of the bolt holes in the block.  Head bolt holes, timing cover / water pump bolt holes, and oil pan bolt holes, all of them looked real clean.  Finally, Rich got the block cleaned up a good bit better than Sean did.  Apparently, there was some crap in the oil galleys left by Sean that Rich managed to clean out.

The screw-in oil galley plugs that Rich installed.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

The crankshaft was just polished up by Sean, and all of the main / rod journals are nice and shiny with no nicks, scratches, or gouges in them.  The oil holes are also nice and chamfered.

 

Rich did balancing work to the crankshaft and rotating assembly.  When I got the crank back from him, I could clearly tell that Rich had drilled out a few spots in the counterweights to equalize the weight of the piston / rod assemblies.  This balancing isn’t necessarily a horsepower gain, but it’ll reduce engine vibrations and horsepower loss.  To go along with it, Rich gave me a little balancing card showing the weights of each individual rotating assembly part along with the final recorded bob weight of 1726 grams.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

I got rid of the old stock connecting rods that Sean put back in the motor.  In their place, I purchased a set of stock replacement semi-floating Eagle I-beam rods.  Not only are they brand new, but they also have 3/8” ARP rod bolts already installed.

 

 

I had Rich check oil clearances in the big end of the new rods, but surprisingly, with standard Clevite rod bearings and stock rod journal diameter, all of the oil clearances in the rods measured out at 0.020” which is right on the money for a Ford 302.  Rich didn’t have to resize any of the rods at all.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

Like Sean’s rod choice, I got rid of those cheap cast pistons he used and bought a set of Speed Pro (basically Sealed Power) hypereutectic cast pistons for a 4.030” bore.  They came with a set of moly / cast iron rings as well.  The rings should seat into the bores pretty quickly, and the newer hypereutectic pistons should be able to hold up to just about anything that’s thrown at them.

 

As I said before, the piston-to-wall clearance with these new pistons was a little tight.  The piston-to-wall clearance spec for a Ford 302 engine is 0.003” to 0.005” but these new pistons had less than 0.001” piston-to-wall clearance.  To remedy that, Rich honed out the cylinders a little bit so that the new pistons would have the proper clearance.

Since I bought the semi-floating connecting rods (no bronze bushing in the small end), Rich had to press the pistons onto the rods.

  

Edited May 20, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

This is a 50 oz. harmonic balancer from Ford Racing, and it also came with a timing pointer.  I bought an ARP balancer bolt for it as well.

 

I will admit, my first impression of this balancer wasn’t so great.

The paint flaked off of the edges pretty easily and the timing marks are kinda hard to see.

 

The inner rubber piece doesn’t look like it was installed right.

 

I’ll run this balancer for now, but I won’t be surprised if I’ll ever need to replace it.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

I bought a stock replacement 50 oz. flywheel to go along with that 50 oz. balancer.  I also bought some ARP bolts for it.  Now I do know that Mustang 302 engines typically use 157-tooth flywheels, but I bought one with 164 teeth.  I’ll explain more about my flywheel choice once I start getting into the bellhousing / clutch part of the build.

[Prokiller]

piece of advise since you have the balancer uninstalled.  get two different colored sharpies and mark the 0 and 10 degree lines better.  makes timing the car sooo much easier.

[BrettNorton]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 1:09 PM, Prokiller said:

piece of advise since you have the balancer uninstalled.  get two different colored sharpies and mark the 0 and 10 degree lines better.  makes timing the car sooo much easier.

 

I'm assuming that you used the 0 and 10 degree marks since most Ford 302 motors supposedly "like" 10 degrees of base timing?

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

I got started with painting the block today.  First, I took about an hour to get all of the sealing surfaces masked off.  I learned this masking trick in high school auto shop where you tape off whatever surface you don’t want to paint on, then take a hammer and LIGHTLY tap the sharp edges of the surface where there's excess tape.  By doing this, I was able to mask the block off perfectly without any excess tape anywhere.  I also put on a little oil filter to keep that spot dry, and I finished up the prep work by wiping down the previously painted surfaces with lacquer thinner to remove the oil and whatever other crap was on there.

 

 

First coat of Ford blue put down!  I’ll wait a day or two for it to dry completely.

 

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

When I first got the engine back from Sean, I noticed that he never installed the cam plug in the back of the block.  So, I had to order a Sealed Power plug kit for a Ford 302 motor that included brass freeze plugs, new oil galley plugs, and the missing cam plug in question (the biggest one in the middle).  Not to worry, the whole kit was less than $10.

 

When I gave the engine parts to Rich, I also gave him all of those plugs in case he wanted to do anything with them.  When I got the engine back from him, not only did he install the screw-in oil galley plugs on the front of the engine, but I also noticed that he installed the cam plug into the back of the block.  NICE.

 

Since Sean installed some cheap-o steel freeze plugs, I decided to replace them with the brass freeze plugs that I had in hand.  I put a light coat of gasket sealer all around the plugs, and then hammered them into the block with a large socket.

Edited May 29, 2016 by BrettNorton

[Prokiller]

On 5/22/2016 at 9:38 PM, BrettNorton said:

 

I'm assuming that you used the 0 and 10 degree marks since most Ford 302 motors supposedly "like" 10 degrees of base timing?

10* is base timing that the computer wants to see.  if your tuning the car, that's what the tuner will want it to be set at.  just makes it easier when timing the car.

[BrettNorton]

10 hours ago, Prokiller said:

10* is base timing that the computer wants to see.  if your tuning the car, that's what the tuner will want it to be set at.  just makes it easier when timing the car.

Aw hell, I'm putting a 4V carb and an HEI distributor on this motor.  There won't be a computer controlling anything.  I could go with EFI, but 1) I'm wanting to keep this engine ASAP (As Simple As Possible), 2) I would like to be able to tune the motor myself without expensive tools or a dyno tune, and 3) It's probably pretty difficult to track down inexpensive EFI parts for a 94-95 Mustang 5.0.  Remember, my car is originally V6 auto.  Tracking down a working T4M0 computer and a decent wiring harness would be a major PITA.

 

I'm still going with marking those 0 and 10 degree marks on the balancer like you said.  Again, I've heard that Ford 302 motors "like" 10 degrees of base timing (probably why the computer wants to see it).  

Edited May 24, 2016 by BrettNorton

[BrettNorton]

May 2016,

 

Put down the final coat of Ford blue this morning (covered the new freeze plugs with the old ones) and let it dry for the day.  Once I got home this evening, I ripped all of the masking tape off to finally see how it all turned out.  I think the paint turned out pretty well, and I can’t see a hint of overspray anywhere.

 

 

Once I finished with the pictures, I coated the cylinder bores and all of the sealing surfaces with WD-40 and sealed the block in some plastic bags.  I won’t be doing any building to it for a while.  Not until the rest of the engine parts arrive.

    

[BrettNorton]

May 2016, 

 

You know that feeling you get when you've got a nice, clean, shiny, freshly-painted car?  And then a bird or something takes a FVCKING $HIT ON IT!?!?  Any of you with nice and shiny cars know what I'm talking about.  Me?  I've never had to worry about that since my Mustang's paint looks like an open autopsy (scuffs, scratches, and clear coat peeling everywhere).  It's got at least 5 bird shi+s from 5 different birds on it as we speak.  But I've never cared.

 

UNTIL TODAY.  Remember how I got the engine bay nice and clean last year?  This picture doesn't show it very well, but my nice clean engine bay has gotten a little dusty and dirty over the past year of sitting outside, even with the hood covering it up.

 

BUT!  That dustiness isn't what I'm (comically) pissed about.  THIS is what pisses me off.  See that?  SOMETHING...  SOMETHING TOOK A FVCKING $HIT IN MY CLEAN ENGINE BAY!!!

 

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by BrettNorton

[Prokiller]

it's not funny at all but that really did make me laugh pretty good, sorry.

[BrettNorton]

3 hours ago, Prokiller said:

it's not funny at all but that really did make me laugh pretty good, sorry.

 

^

 

Pfft.  Nothing a good ol' power washing won't fix.  You should've seen the wasp nest I found last summer when I put the suspension back together.  I think I actually have a pic of it a few pages back.