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Tabres

Tabres' Turbo Cobra - Winter Shenanigans

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4 hours ago, Musturd said:

Looking good dude . Engine turned out awesome 

 

Thanks, man!  I appreciate it!

 

2 hours ago, 95riosnake said:

Dude you're a machine, it would take me a month to dress a short block, let alone get everything else hooked up lol.

 

Looks incredibly clean!

 

To be fair, my Dad flew in and we tag teamed it.  Even still, it was Friday from about 1-6pm, Saturday from like 8-3, Sunday from like 8-4, and Monday from like 8-12.

 

It's funny you say about it taking a month, though.  I actually made the comment to my Dad that what we got done in 4 days would have taken like a month and a half before.  It helps a lot that I've done this more than once and know exactly the order and routing of parts.

 

2 hours ago, Lanter said:

Oh man talk about moving right along.  Engine and bay look amazing!

 

Thanks, dude!  Definitely was a lot of work this winter.  It's nice to finally see the payoff.

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I spent about 3 hours this morning re-modifying my engine harness to move a few plugs around for the sensors being in different positions on the 99/01 Cobra upper intake.  It is not hard work but damn is it tedious.  I wound up basically having to unwrap and re-wrap about half of the harness.  After I finished that up I installed it in the car for the last time.

 

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This afternoon I buckled down and finally decided to try my hand at polishing the new stainless intercooler/intake pipe I had to make.  My process was to thoroughly wet sand with 150, 220, 400, 800, 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit and then I went over it several times with Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish on a cotton wheel attachment on my cordless drill.  My arm and shoulder are dead but I think the process worked pretty well.  I'm happy with the results anyway for it being my first time polishing metal.

 

This is after the 150 grit stage...

 

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This is the pipe completely finished after hitting it with the Mother's polish...

 

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The completed bay.  All of the wiring harnesses are in, all of the vacuum lines, fuel lines, everything.  The only thing missing is the t-bolt clamps on the silicone couplers.  Ignore the blue tape.  It is there to remind me to put fluids in the engine.

 

1_zpsjtyhgii9.jpg

 

 

 

My plan is to fire up the engine tomorrow hopefully.  I just need to take off the new cold side pipes and clean them out really well and then prime the engine with oil and fill the rest of the fluids.  The battery charger is already on the car doing its thing so shouldn't take too long tomorrow.  My wife wants to go to a farmer's market tomorrow morning and we'll be out of town most of the rest of the day though so I may have to wait until Sunday to start it.  I'm certainly not interested in rushing things at this point.

Edited by Tabres
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My life is getting to the point that I wonder why I like cars.  So I've been messing with the car for quite some time since I got it all back together.  Mostly it's my fault because I forgot to RTV in a certain area on both side of the front cover and I've had oil leaks I've been trying to use thin coats of RTV to seal up so that I didn't have to take everything back apart to reseal the front cover.  Thin coats of RTV turned into a shameful amount of RTV (almost a whole tube of it) winding up on the head/front cover/block area.  It looked like a murder scene but it finally became oil tight.

 

So I get to start the car.  The thing fired right up like it ran just the day before.  It came down to idle great, great oil pressure, it warmed up great, everything was good... except I could hear a tick in the valvetrain right in the area of the front cylinder on the driver's side, or maybe in the chain somewhere.  

 

 

 

 

I take the serpentine belt off to make sure it's not an accessory or a idler pulley and it's not.  So I'm thinking, "okay, probably a collapsed lash adjuster..."  So I go through the process of removing the valve cover, which is really not a big deal for me now, I can have it off in 10 minutes.  There is a neat trick on 4V where you can rotate the engine so the base circle of the camshaft is on the rocker arm and if you're very careful you can use a flat blade screwdriver to pop the rocker arm in and out to get to the lash adjusters.  So on Friday that is what I did.  Right away in the front cylinder I found a damaged lash adjuster just like I was expecting (I should note, I didn't reassemble the heads.  The machine shop did.  They never told me about this so they must have missed it?  Idk...).  Thankfully I had ordered a new ones and some rocker arms to have on hand so I could fix it right away if I found anything.

 

20160527_113700_zpsbcfxx1f7.jpg

 

A fully bled down, brand new one is on the right.  The non-bled down, damaged one is on the left.  You can see this visible height difference.

 

20160527_113930_zpsllbmuro6.jpg

 

So I checked that one cylinder and put it back together confident I found the issue.  When I started the car again the noise had improved, but I still had a prominent tick as before.  So the valve cover comes back off, I spend the next 3 hours checking all of the rest of the lash adjusters on that side.  I find one more adjuster damaged like the first one, and another one that when I bled it down to re-install was completely collapsed.  So in total I replaced three of them.  Again, confident I got it sorted this time for sure, I put it back together.  It was 11pm by this time and rather than be an asshole to my neighbors I waited until the following morning to start the car and check for success.

 

Saturday morning, I fire the car up, again the noise was better, but still there.  At this point, its like, "eff me... it's something in the chains, guides, or tensioners."  Which, everyone knows is a fairly common issue on a mod motor.  I'm a little burnt out at this point and have other things I need to get done so I wait until Sunday morning to take everything apart.  After 5 hours of disassembly I've got the engine naked... fluids out of it, turbo kit off of it, power steering pump, a/c delete pulley, both valve covers, oil pan dropped down, timing cover off and I believe I have found my issue.  It appears the primary chain tensioner on the driver's side has failed.  I took a few videos to show my Dad who is always curious about the car so I share them here to illustrate the issue.

 

20160530_084755_zpsxbkqg8gf.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, I'm on the hunt for two new primary chain tensioners.  I always try to replace things in pairs, it's just good practice in my opinion.  I think I should be able to replace them without removing all of the chains, too.  A small c-clamp on the guide should keep the chains in place and allow me to remove the tensioners and put new ones in.  In theory it should work anyway.  I'm going to at least give it a shot and if I have to take it apart after all it's not the end of the world.

 

The small silver lining is that now I'll be able to reseal the front cover properly and remove the 10 pounds of RTV I had to use to stop the oil leaks.

 

The saga continues...

Edited by Tabres
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Kudos for trying to see the positive side of things lol. I will admit I've shamefully RTV'd a few things in the past and it always feels like I should be outside Auto Zone with a $20 tool kit doing it... just not the way I like to do things.

 

I hear you about sometimes wondering why we're into cars. I haven't even worked on mine in ages and I still feel that way sometimes. The whole thing is looking killer in the assembled pictures by the way. I'll admit I was on the fence about the rivet look at first but seeing it all together they kind of blend in and disappear. Worlds better than stock for sure :drink_to_that:

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definitely sucks that you had to go through all of that but in the end you'll be able to trust the motor which is worth it in my opinion.  

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4 hours ago, 95riosnake said:

Kudos for trying to see the positive side of things lol. I will admit I've shamefully RTV'd a few things in the past and it always feels like I should be outside Auto Zone with a $20 tool kit doing it... just not the way I like to do things.

 

I hear you about sometimes wondering why we're into cars. I haven't even worked on mine in ages and I still feel that way sometimes. The whole thing is looking killer in the assembled pictures by the way. I'll admit I was on the fence about the rivet look at first but seeing it all together they kind of blend in and disappear. Worlds better than stock for sure :drink_to_that:

 

lol, yeah, I'm maintaining a positive look now but I did have a huge, raging, want to burn the car to the ground style meltdown when I was discovered the oil leaks.  I'm sure my neighbors now think of me differently if there were any outside at the time.  The leaks were mind numbing and demoralizing to deal with because they were coming from area above/behind the power-steering pump and the oil-filter adapter/water outlet on the driver's side and behind the a/c delete pulley on the passenger side.  The passenger side wasn't terrible but to fix the driver's side I had to remove the serpentine belt (not the easiest with the turbo kit installed), drain the coolant out and the power steering reservoir and remove the pump and the oil-filter adapter, smear RTV on, put everything back together... typically took about an hour and a half each time, then wait 24 hours for the RTV to cure and to start the car to see if it leaked.  I had to do that about 6 times on each side of the engine.  All told it took me about a week and a half to get it to stop leaking.

 

Thanks for the compliments, too.  I wasn't quite sure about the rivet-in panels either when I was first test fitting them.  They really worked out well once I got them painted and everything else back in the bay, though.  It's definitely a great low-cost solution for anyone who doesn't want to go through the time and cost to weld in panels and body work everything.

 

2 hours ago, Prokiller said:

definitely sucks that you had to go through all of that but in the end you'll be able to trust the motor which is worth it in my opinion.  

 

Yeah, I agree.  I know there are people that would have run it like that and just dealt with the noise, but I'm not one of those guys.  I'm too much of an OCD spaz for it.  Noise aside, I'd be freaking out every time I leaned on the gas and the car just wouldn't be enjoyable for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I purchased the new primary chain tensioners this morning and have those coming.  Roughly $130 shipped for the pair.  Not cheap but I'm by no means interested in doing this job twice.  Also have new timing cover and valve cover gaskets coming.  I probably could have salvaged the old ones but, again, for what they cost, not worth not replacing them.  Everything should be here by Thursday at the latest so I'm hopeful I may be able to get it all back together by the end of the weekend.

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Waiting on one more upgraded tensioner for the secondary chain on the passenger side.  Should be here tomorrow and then I can work on getting it back together.  Might be slow going.  I've got a bunch of painting to do in the house and it supposed to be 97 degrees this weekend so not sure how much time I'll want to spend in the garage...

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So a small update... My primary chain tensioners showed up and you can in fact cheat installing them by using c-clamps on the primary chain guides like I talked about above.  So those went on, but I was still concerned about some of the excessive slack I was seeing in the secondary chains.  So I swapped out the two secondary chains (I happened to have some laying around... never get rid of stuff).  The driver's side certainly seemed to be stretched a little and the different chain took care of it.  The passenger side was a different case.  There is an inherent design flaw with the tensioner on that side.  Basically it tensioners the wrong side of the secondary chain as the engine runs, and the tensioning side should be flipped and facing up, not down like it is from the factory.  Accufab designed and pioneered an upgraded tensioner years ago, but theirs is super expensive (like $450).  MMR sells one that is a DIY kit that you harvest parts from your factory tensioner, and Cobra Engineering has a DIY kit as well.  I tried to pick up the Cobra Engineering tensioner but they're out of stock so I was left with the only option of buying the MMR DIY tensioner... and I think it's resonably well known how much I hate MMR.  I feel dirty for giving them more money.  No amount of scrubbing in the shower has cured this.

 

My biggest regret is that I didn't grind off the MMR logo before installing the tensioner.  

 

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Everything is about halfway back together now.  Oil pan, valve covers, timing cover... all that junk is back on.  I need to get the balancer back on and a few accessories and then the turbo kit can go back on.  I'd project by mid-afternoon Friday I should have it all back together..

 

Edited by Tabres
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On 6/9/2016 at 11:20 AM, Tabres said:

So a small update... My primary chain tensioners showed up and you can in fact cheat installing them by using c-clamps on the primary chain guides like I talked about above.  So those went on, but I was still concerned about some of the excessive slack I was seeing in the secondary chains.  So I swapped out the two secondary chains (I happened to have some laying around... never get rid of stuff).  The driver's side certainly seemed to be stretched a little and the different chain took care of it.  The passenger side was a different case.  There is an inherent design flaw with the tensioner on that side.  Basically it tensioners the wrong side of the secondary chain as the engine runs, and the tensioning side should be flipped and facing up, not down like it is from the factory.  Accufab designed and pioneered an upgraded tensioner years ago, but theirs is super expensive (like $450).  MMR sells one that is a DIY kit that you harvest parts from your factory tensioner, and Cobra Engineering has a DIY kit as well.  I tried to pick up the Cobra Engineering tensioner but they're out of stock so I was left with the only option of buying the MMR DIY tensioner... and I think it's resonably well known how much I hate MMR.  I feel dirty for giving them more money.  No amount of scrubbing in the shower has cured this.

 

My biggest regret is that I didn't grind off the MMR logo before installing the tensioner.  

 

20160608_144802_zps1nk8pm55.jpg

 

20160608_145030_zpsa2c0osiw.jpg

 

 

Everything is about halfway back together now.  Oil pan, valve covers, timing cover... all that junk is back on.  I need to get the balancer back on and a few accessories and then the turbo kit can go back on.  I'd project by mid-afternoon Friday I should have it all back together..

 

Do B heads have this problem? With the tensioner, or is it just the C heads? If so will one of these kits fix that?

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On 6/24/2016 at 1:56 PM, Spockbacca said:

Do B heads have this problem? With the tensioner, or is it just the C heads? If so will one of these kits fix that?

 

All 96-04 DOHC cars have this issue.

Edited by Tabres
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2 hours ago, Tabres said:

 

All 96-04 DOHC cars have this issue.

That stinks, guess it doesn't matter though seeing as I'll be doing a C Head swap in the future. Just another thing to add to the list. Although knowing this now could save some serious headache in the future. Thanks Bryan!!!

Edited by Spockbacca
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It's been a while since I've updated.  Last I left off I was replacing timing chain tensioners to attempt to cure a ticking noise I was experiencing.  Life has been throwing me a lot of curve balls lately and I haven't had much time for the car but I did get everything back together about a week and a half ago.  I'm pleased to say that all of the work I did between the chains and the tensioners has cured the noise and the motor runs nice and silently now.

 

My disappointment came when I went to take the car on it's maiden voyage.  My goal for a while has been to have it done by my birthday, which was the 23rd of June.  It wasn't to be though as on the 22nd I set it on the ground and went to set out for its first drive.  Immediately there was an issue - the transmission wouldn't go into any gear with the car running.  With the car elevated on jack stands it wouldn't even go into gear with the engine running.  It did however go into gear completely fine with the engine off, though.  Really, really strange as I didn't change anything on the trans/clutch setup at all.  I went over and over everything, adjusted the firewall adjuster every which way it could go with no results.  With nothing else left to try I resolved that I needed to pull the transmission, the one thing I probably hate doing the most on my car.  It's always an epic pain in the ass, doubly so when I don't have help which is the situation I'm in now.

 

So, I finally caved and bought a transmission jack, something I've been talking about doing for ever.  I pulled everything apart this afternoon and my initial impression is, even with it being an inexpensive Harbor Freight transmission jack.... I have no effing clue why I did not buy one of these years ago.  It makes the task so much easier it is mind numbing.  The ratchet strap on this particular jack is worthless as the trans tunnel is tight enough that you're not going to get it on.  One good suggestion my Dad had was to put some anti skid material on the cradle to prevent the trans from sliding around.  I had some extra tool box drawer liner on hand and it worked great.

 

20160630_170207_zpsmsdmnesy.jpg

 

 

I was hoping something would be pretty obviously wrong when I took everything apart and I when I looked into the crank to inspect the pilot bearing I was rewarded.  The bearing was totally fubared.  I installed a brand new one when I had the engine out this past winter but I think it just got damaged when I put the transmission in.  It was a real struggle to get the trans in, even with my Dad and brother helping me.

 

20160630_170149_zpswyxrxmbj.jpg

 

 

 

So, I've got a new pilot bearing ordered and it'll be here tomorrow, along with a new throw-out bearing - figured might as well replace it while the trans it out.  I'm hopeful I can get everything back together this weekend at some point and have these struggles behind me.

Edited by Tabres
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at least you found the problem.  I do have a trans jack with the same problem.  the strap is useless.  the drawer liner is actually a really good idea.  i'll have to remember that next i pull mine.

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Get any time over the holiday weekend to work on the car?  Interested to see if you got the trans issues ironed out and the car on the road.

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Yes, sir, I did.

 

I replaced the pilot and throw-out bearing and got the transmission reinstalled and all buttoned up on Saturday morning.  All is good now.  I took it for a short drive around the neighborhood.  Initial impressions, runs great, engine is very smooth and responsive.  I would guess the tune will need very little touch up.  I do need to adjust the firewall adjuster as clutch engagement point is all of the way at the top right now.  The open downpipe is pretty loud.  It'll take a little getting used to.  Reminds me of my Dad's C2 Corvette that has side pipes.

 

Plan is to get the car cleaned up at some point this week, install the turbo blanket, and I think I might have a tiny vacuum leak where I tucked some of the vacuum lines that ran into the interior for the HVAC system so I need to check that out.

 

All in all...

 

1324dfd733535e58dba70264e6d05c9b70346204

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4 hours ago, 95riosnake said:

Glad to hear the smooth sailing maiden voyage has finally happened! That car has really put you through some hell recently.

 

Funny you say that.  I took the car out to the grocery store real quick over my lunch hour to grab some stuff for the week.  Short two miles there.  I came out of the store to find fuel under my car and I came home on a flat bed tow truck... lol.  It's leaking fuel at the rail.  I've been having issues with that area all year long so far.  Interesting really because it ran fine on Sunday when I had it out.  I think since the engine has had a few cycles of warming and cooling now things have loosened up perhaps and caused this.  Idk, haven't really looked at it yet.  I suspect I may need to replace some fittings on the rails a they're getting a little worn from having the fittings on and off so many times.  Not a big deal, though.  It at least got my money's worth from AAA membership this year now.

 

I did happen to have my little point and shoot camera with me that takes decent video.  I took a short, boring little video of the trip to the store today.  Shows pretty well what the exhaust sounds like...

 

 

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She sounds good Bryan! Sorry to hear your fuel rail is crapping out on you. Did you find out if it was just loose fittings? Oh btw that's some hellacious oil pressure!

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An injector o-ring popped out of the rail on cylinder 8.  Should be able to just re-seat the injector and be on my way.  Concerns me a little that I'm having so many issues with the rails when I never did in the past.  I really don't care for how much plus there is in the mounting area of the rails.

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On 7/6/2016 at 11:58 AM, Tabres said:

An injector o-ring popped out of the rail on cylinder 8.  Should be able to just re-seat the injector and be on my way.  Concerns me a little that I'm having so many issues with the rails when I never did in the past.  I really don't care for how much plus there is in the mounting area of the rails.

How does an oring just pop out? aren't the rails mounted to the intake? Sucks you're having all these problems with the fuel rails. 

Edited by Spockbacca
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I actually just "fixed" this issue yesterday after letting the car sit for a little over a week.  I've been busy with home projects and it's been quite hot out, didn't really feel like being out in the garage much.

 

In regards to the rails, after looking at them more closely and figuring out what has been going on, I'm not real impressed with how Aeromotive made the rails for the 99/01 intakes.  To me, they cut some corners for the sake of speed and cost that they should not have.

 

F145583315.jpg

 

So, if you were to rest the rails on a flat surface on the side injectors slot into, the rails are actually produced with a bevel in that area, they're not flat.  Notice the metal mounting tabs that bolt to the rails - Those are made with a slight bend to them.  An aluminum spacer goes between those tabs and the intake manifold to mount them.  The design is such that as you tighten the rails down, the torque from the bolts use the bend in the mounting tabs to pull the the bottom of the rail back flush with the injectors.  In theory it works, but it's a pretty cheap design and has severeal failure points.  There is a quite a bit of play in those tabs which makes its fairly easy to not get a perfect seal.  Over time, having the rails off and on, everything moves around, the tabs get a little misshapen and the injectors can wind up not sitting in the rail perfectly flush and the o-rings can push out under pressure.  Especially when I run 50psi base pressure and it only goes up from there when I build boost.  In my opinion, what they should have done is milled out the mounting area in the rail with a corresponding correct bevel and not rely on the cheap tab/spacer design that they currently use to pull everything back flush and seal correctly.

 

To remedy my issue for the time being, I removed the tabs and bent them a little differently with my vice.  How I've got it setup now, visually to me gives the injectors a better seal.  In the long run I may look at replacing the rails if I can find a set that is constructed in a quality fashion that I would prefer.  I haven't looked into other brands much yet, though.

Edited by Tabres
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3 hours ago, Tabres said:

I actually just "fixed" this issue yesterday after letting the car sit for a little over a week.  I've been busy with home projects and it's been quite hot out, didn't really feel like being out in the garage much.

 

In regards to the rails, after looking at them more closely and figuring out what has been going on, I'm not real impressed with how Aeromotive made the rails for the 99/01 intakes.  To me, they cut some corners for the sake of speed and cost that they should not have.

 

F145583315.jpg

 

So, if you were to rest the rails on a flat surface on the side injectors slot into, the rails are actually produced with a bevel in that area, they're not flat.  Notice the metal mounting tabs that bolt to the rails - Those are made with a slight bend to them.  An aluminum spacer goes between those tabs and the intake manifold to mount them.  The design is such that as you tighten the rails down, the torque from the bolts use the bend in the mounting tabs to pull the the bottom of the rail back flush with the injectors.  In theory it works, but it's a pretty cheap design and has severeal failure points.  There is a quite a bit of play in those tabs which makes its fairly easy to not get a perfect seal.  Over time, having the rails off and on, everything moves around, the tabs get a little misshapen and the injectors can wind up not sitting in the rail perfectly flush and the o-rings can push out under pressure.  Especially when I run 50psi base pressure and it only goes up from there when I build boost.  In my opinion, what they should have done is milled out the mounting area in the rail with a corresponding correct bevel and not rely on the cheap tab/spacer design that they currently use to pull everything back flush and seal correctly.

 

To remedy my issue for the time being, I removed the tabs and bent them a little differently with my vice.  How I've got it setup now, visually to me gives the injectors a better seal.  In the long run I may look at replacing the rails if I can find a set that is constructed in a quality fashion that I would prefer.  I haven't looked into other brands much yet, though.

 

Makes sense. Sucks about Aeromotive, I've always heard such great things about them and actually planned on running them in my car eventually. Makes me second guess them now. Anyways, glad you were about to "Fix" up a semi-solution. I hope it holds up for you!

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On 7/15/2016 at 2:05 PM, Spockbacca said:

 

Makes sense. Sucks about Aeromotive, I've always heard such great things about them and actually planned on running them in my car eventually. Makes me second guess them now. Anyways, glad you were about to "Fix" up a semi-solution. I hope it holds up for you!

Yeah, i was also going to use them but alot of people told me to go with for instead. Definitely not looking back. 

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9 hours ago, Tabres said:

My solution worked for about 5 miles before another injector blew out.  Cutting my losses and ordering a set of Division X rails on Monday.

Dammit man what is with these turbo cars.  Have you set an appointment to have the car retuned?

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