e85 and you: the low down on the corn

[iRoush]

Seems like more and more e85 threads or questions are coming up so I figure I'll lay out the basics of it's use.

First and foremost, if you don't have an aggressive N/A setup or power adder, don't even bother with e85. It will do next to nothing but drain your tank quicker.

e85 Myths:

1. E85 Ethanol is corrosive

Yes ethanol is corrosive, but not very much. Gasoline is corrosive too. Ethanol is biodegradable in water. So it has a tendency to contain and attract water. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Also today’s distilling processes are superior to way back when. We now have better techniques for drying out ethanol or reducing the water content.

On side note, gas contains water too. Ever hear of dry gas?

2. If I put E85 in my gas tank, it will eat it away.

If your car was built in the old days, it was had a lead coated, steel tank. The water in ethanol would cause the tank to rust from the inside out. The government mandated that all gas in the USA contain 10% ethanol to help reduce tail pipe emissions. In the 1980s, automakers made vehicles with fuel systems to be ethanol and rust tolerant. Gas tanks began to contain polymers and Teflon which are extremely durable.

3. Ethanol will ruin gaskets, seals, rings and more.

Running 100% ethanol or alcohol in an engine can cause damage to cork products.

The rubber neoprene used in the last 20 + years is resistant to the drying effect that ethanol may have.

Today's vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and gasoline. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets may have issues from long term exposure to water.

Vehicles in Brazil have been using ethanol for 30 years and they are completely free from using any foreign oil.

4. E85 will eat my rubber fuel lines.

This is another myth from the old days. Rubber technology has significantly advanced so the concerns of a 20 year old car or newer having issues like this are extremely rare. Plus the 15% gas will help keep lines lubricated.

[iRoush]

Q&A

1.) How much more fuel does e85 consume compared to fossil fuels?

This will very from setup to setup. On average I believe that you'll see a decrease in 5-20% economy.

2.) How can I increase the fuel economy with e85?

Higher compression. Perfect 1:1 consumption with gasoline is 16:1 Compression. The amount of fuel needed in a higher CR vehicle is reduced as it'll take less fuel to create a bang in the cylinder with higher pressures. This being said, this is an effective strategy for N/A engines, not nearly as effective for boosted as boost requires a lot more fuel. Currently I run 13.7:1 CR and have netted an overall increase in gas mileage compared to my previous setup running on 91.

3.) How often should I change my oil? Fuel filter?

As a rule of thumb, I would change it out every 2000 miles or 2 months. e85 produces condensation, and due to the fact that e85 puts 20% more fuel in the cylinders, it will mix with the oil a lot quicker than gasoline will and we all know any kind of fuel will eat away at bearings over time... As for the fuel filter, this is dependent on the cleanliness of your gas tank. When I did my swap i made sure my terminator tank was clean, otherwise, if you did not drain the tank and clean it, I would recommend changing the filter at least 500 miles after the first e85 fill up as the sediment stuck to the bottom of the tank will be sucked into the pump.

4.) What are the benefits to running e85?

Cooler temperatures (Oil, water, etc.). It's the equivalent to 105 octane which will alow you to run more timing which will boost power across the rpm's. Much more environmentally friendly than gasoline. Much cheaper than gasoline.

5.) What do I need to convert?

Fuel Injectors:

There is no exact answer to what size you need but you can use this as a guide. Stoich AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) for e85 is 10:1 versus the 14.7:1 of gasoline. so there is a 147% (1.47) difference. Multiply your current injector size, or the injector size you'd run on your setup (if you are converting while upgrading as well) by 1.47. For example: Say you have 19# injectors currently and you are converting to e85. you'd take 19 x 1.47 = 27.93. The closest Ford injector to this size, is 30#'s.

Fuel Pump:

For an N/A e85 mustang, I'd recommend either the KMS Torker 340LPH Fuel Pump or if you can locate one for cheap, a Terminator Fuel Tank with the Cobra Pumps. For Boosted, I'd only recommend a terminator tank or a GP (Glenns Performance) Fuel Tank.

Tune:

A Tune is a necessity for the demand for more fuel. You would run extremely lean if you were to not change the tune to be compatible with the greater fuel demand of e85.

6.) Any negatives to e85?

The only negative I'm aware of is on cold starts in cold temperatures. Due to the low vapor pressure it makes the car extremely difficult to start and when it does start the AFR will fluctuate between 16-19:1 AFR. As the car and fuel heats up the AFR will start to come back into the range it is meant to be in.

**reserved for more info**

Edited September 15, 2013 by iRoush

[iRoush]

The Effects of e85

Fuel Filter

Mileage: 10,000mi (1 year)

What I found in the filter:

-The e85 gummed up a bit especially on the metal interior partially blocking flow. other than that it was nice and clean.

Before/After Effects: I waited as long as I could to change the fuel filter. The car developed an extended cranking issue that was immediately resolved with the replacement of the filter.

Edited September 15, 2013 by iRoush

[Brian]

You need to update this

How do e85 and meth work with each other? Or since e85 makes everything run cooler is it not worth adding meth to the equation?

[iRoush]

Bump for adding the extended effects of e85 on the fuel filter. next up will be the injectors.

[iRoush]

You need to update this

How do e85 and meth work with each other? Or since e85 makes everything run cooler is it not worth adding meth to the equation?

I have no personal experience with e85 and meth but considering that e85 doubles as a cooling effect I don't think meth would be necessary.

[Pushrod91]

Meth is a terrible drug. :look:

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[Schiffy]

This makes me want to build a high CR NA engine and throw timing at it. Haha

[Duff Daddy]

I will be here Brett will have more on the road course/road car side of this. My car will be on the track 100% of the time, however I will be tuning it. Hopefully we can get more to hop on the corn cob with us....

[Det_Riot]

I'm planning on hopping on the corn train for my big boy build in the near future!

[Psychorugby]

I'm planning on hopping on the corn train for my big boy build in the near future!

I'm really considering building the 351w to run on corn. I, however, know jack shit about building a motor.

[Schiffy]

I'm really considering building the 351w to run on corn. I, however, know jack shit about building a motor.

But you have a new garage to learn in! Haha

[Psychorugby]

But you have a new garage to learn in! Haha

Not quite. Two weeks or so away. You can bet your ass that there will be a 66 Mustang with the motor and fuel system pulled out, a 95 Mustang with the entire suspension and drivetrain pulled out, and a 351w in process at some point in the near future though.

[Schiffy]

Not quite. Two weeks or so away. You can bet your ass that there will be a 66 Mustang with the motor and fuel system pulled out, a 95 Mustang with the entire suspension and drivetrain pulled out, and a 351w in process at some point in the near future though.

Sounds like you need a dry erase board in the garage so you can keep up with what you're doing. Haha

[Psychorugby]

Sounds like you need a dry erase board in the garage so you can keep up with what you're doing. Haha

Not a terrible idea!

/threadjack

[Schiffy]

So back on topic. E85 is very accessible here. Every navy base has an E85 pump.

[Psychorugby]

New stations around town here are popping up with E85, which is why I am interested. Suck that I just replaced my fuel pump though. Since my car is just a weekend fun car, I'm not terribly concerned with fuel efficiency and more interested in the added power.

[GearGambler]

Not a terrible idea!

/threadjack

I have one. its worth its weight in gold! I also use the gas cubby app to track fill ups / service on all my cars.

Back on the subject. I wish that there were more e85 stations around me. I would convert in a heartbeat. I would like to hear more about why a tune is needed. is it just for the Air / Fuel ratio or fuel map? I'm guessing a wideband could be employed to make sure everything is right?

[iRoush]

I have one. its worth its weight in gold! I also use the gas cubby app to track fill ups / service on all my cars.

Back on the subject. I wish that there were more e85 stations around me. I would convert in a heartbeat. I would like to hear more about why a tune is needed. is it just for the Air / Fuel ratio or fuel map? I'm guessing a wideband could be employed to make sure everything is right?

A tune is necessary to correct A/F ratio. With an e85 conversion you'll need at least 20% more fuel delivery on the same setup running gasoline. Without a tune the larger injectors would flood or if you tried to get away with smaller injectors you'd starve the motor of fuel.