busta Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'd like to build the top end of my '94 Cobra (stock motor) with the goals of increasing my power without increasing boost. Currently running 6lbs with my Kenne Bell and I'd rather stay at that boost level because I'm not running meth. If I push the boost up more I think the IAT's would be pushing it. The car made 320/355 at the wheels as it currently sits. I was thinking of running the AFR 165 heads with a Steeda #19 cam, Ford B303 or Comp Cams XE274HR. I'm not very familiar with building motors but it looks like I would need 1.6 rockers and a set of hardened pushrods were recommended. I'd love to just pick up a complete kit similar to the TFS set but I don't need an intake. I would upgrade my injectors, MAF and fuel pump at the same time and have the car dyno tuned. I'd like to see 380rwhp anything more would be a bonus. What setup would you guys recommend? What other parts would I need? I've never delved into the world of building motors so I'm a bit ignorant to a lot of it. I have been doing some research if you guys have any helpful suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokiller Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 well first thing to remember about boost is that it is a measure of restriction. the more airflow you push through the engine with better flowing heads/cam the less "boost" you'll be making. but the correlation to that is you're making more power. That being said, a boost number is really just a guideline, it's not like all of a sudden you hit 9lbs and you must run out immediately and get meth or an intercooler. doesn't work like that. as far as your plans, afr 165 would probably get you there but if your doing it, i'd step up to 185s and give yourself some room to grow. i do like my anderson blower cam. those cams you listed are more for N/A builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallblocksn95 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Check out the trickflow 190s...they've just been released. I just bout these for my 351, and you can find summits link for them in my build thread along with pics of my personal heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnbyu Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 The 11R 190's will shit all over the afr 165's in every way.. My only concern is the lower intake being such a restriction.. I'd definitely have t moss port the piss out of it and have him match it to the heads... $1500 for the heads is a really good price for what you get.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilspill Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Being married to the cobra lower is one of the things that I hate about having a KB. But Im soaking all this in since Im still about 6 months from having the money to build my motor too. IIf you want something like the trick flow top end kit. I would talk to woody over at fordstrokers.com. Im sure that he would be happy to put you together a package like that with everything that you would need for you situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det_Riot Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'd like to build the top end of my '94 Cobra (stock motor) with the goals of increasing my power without increasing boost. Currently running 6lbs with my Kenne Bell and I'd rather stay at that boost level because I'm not running meth. If I push the boost up more I think the IAT's would be pushing it. The car made 320/355 at the wheels as it currently sits. I would upgrade my injectors, MAF and fuel pump at the same time and have the car dyno tuned. I'd like to see 380rwhp anything more would be a bonus. What setup would you guys recommend? What other parts would I need? I've never delved into the world of building motors so I'm a bit ignorant to a lot of it. I have been doing some research if you guys have any helpful suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Here's my take on it, since you're limited by the cobra lower, definitely get it ported to get the most out of it. Go for a nice head package, the 11r 90's look like a solid head, or even an AFR 185 because you might be able to find those used. Long tubes if you don't already have some, go with the largest maf and matching throttle body you can, if you run a lightning maf, you could run a 90mm t/b if you have the real estate. At this point I'd call up Ed curtis @ FTI and get a custom ground cam for your combo, he'll recommend rockers and then pushrods shhould be ordered so you have the correct valvetrain geometry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95opal Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Port the lower, AFR 165s with a good cam and 10#s will put you over 400 at the tire. If you want more go with the TFS heads unless you don't mind notching your pistons you can slap some 185s on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearGambler Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 some great info in this thread, especially what was said about the boost #. If you put better heads on, that boost# will drop because the heads are more efficient. The cobra lower should match up nicely with the AFRs. I also like the idea of going with a bigger head if you can. The 165 may increase compression due to the chamber size - do some research on this!!! It may be a good thing. If you're at the pump gas limit right now, then maybe its a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busta Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thank you so much for the information guys. I'm looking to do this build on a budget with the goal of a nice power increase while keeping the car running safely. Thanks for the note on the boost level! I am leaning towards the AFR 165 heads. The research I've done seems to show that I won't have to cut the pistons and will get plenty of flow matched with a ported Cobra lower. As for the cam I will definitely contact freezy for his suggestions. The KB makes peak torque at about 3,000RPM so I'm thinking I may want to run a cam that helps the mid-to-high range powerband - is my thinking here correct? I do currently have stock manifolds but will most likely forgo the longtubes and run shorties unless I can find a deal on the longtubes/midpipe to swap. I spoke with Dave at DGR about this topic a little while ago and he felt that my goals should be attainable with a good tune on 93 as long as I can make sure that my fuel system is up to par. It's the IAT's which I'll want to keep my eyes on. According to this article on LaSota racings website moving the ACT to my #5 intake runner on the GT40 runner would be ideal. http://www.lasotaracing.com/techKB.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revhead347 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I actually think your initial build is right on target. The AFR 165 will work very well with the Cobra lower. I think going with a bigger more expensive head is just going to get choked out by the intake anyway. Then you are also running into porting cost, and PTV clearance questions, and the money avalanche just keeps on rolling. I'm wondering if you can't just run pedastal mount rockers on the 165 head, that way you can reuse your stock rockers. They are a 1.6. With a pedastal mount rocker and a small cam there really isn't a need to go to hardened pushrod. It's recommended but not an absolute requirement. The Steeda #19 cam would be my top choice out of the ones you have listed. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busta Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I actually think your initial build is right on target. The AFR 165 will work very well with the Cobra lower. I think going with a bigger more expensive head is just going to get choked out by the intake anyway. Then you are also running into porting cost, and PTV clearance questions, and the money avalanche just keeps on rolling. I'm wondering if you can't just run pedastal mount rockers on the 165 head, that way you can reuse your stock rockers. They are a 1.6. With a pedastal mount rocker and a small cam there really isn't a need to go to hardened pushrod. It's recommended but not an absolute requirement. The Steeda #19 cam would be my top choice out of the ones you have listed. Kurt Hey Kurt, Thanks for the info! The more and more I read the AFR 165's do seem up to the task for my build while maintaining a reasonable budget. Pushrods and rockers aren't too expensive to the point that I would neglect them to reuse stock parts. I figure if I'm freshening the top end I may as well do them. Thanks for your positive suggestion on the Steeda cam. Is there a different one that you would recommend aside from a custom ground one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revhead347 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'm no cam expert, so any recommendation I have is not going to be as good as one from a professional. I always say that if you really want to shop around for a cam, call Comp Cams. They have the largest number of off the shelf grinds, so they are going to be able to recommend a cam very close to what you need. I know the #19 works very well with the centrifugal blowers, and I imagine it would work very well with a KB as well. I think the AFR 165 will meet your needs very well. Everyone recommends bigger heads when they aren't going on their credit card. That stuff gets really expensive quickly. I actually prefer the Trick Flow 170 head to the AFR 165, but they are both excellent heads. The 165 might work with pedastal rockers, and the valve geometry is closer to stock. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busta Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Are these the Trickflow heads that you are referring to? They are a few hundred $$'s cheaper than the AFR. http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/TFS-51400002M61/Trick-Flow-Twisted-Wedge-170Cc-Small-Block-Ford-Heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash473 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have a brand new (still in boxes) TFS Track Heat 360hp top end kit (black) I'm wanting to get rid of. Figured I'd throw it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busta Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I have a brand new (still in boxes) TFS Track Heat 360hp top end kit (black) I'm wanting to get rid of. Figured I'd throw it out there. If you would be willing to sell it without the intake I might be tempted depending on what you're asking. That's the kit with the same heads as the link I posted above, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash473 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Actually yeah, same heads. If you're gonna take everything except the intake I might split it up. The intake shouldn't be too hard to sell on it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busta Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Sure feel free to shoot me a price I'm curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revhead347 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Yes, those are the heads. I do have to warn you that you could run into problems running stud mount rockers. Does anyone here know if you can run stud mount rockers with a stock valve cover in an SN? If not, you have to get the Trick Flow valve covers. I can find them if it's an issue. It's the only valve cover I am aware of that fits under the stock intake without a spacer and clears the alternator. It's what I run on my car. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokiller Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I'm no cam expert, so any recommendation I have is not going to be as good as one from a professional. I always say that if you really want to shop around for a cam, call Comp Cams. They have the largest number of off the shelf grinds, so they are going to be able to recommend a cam very close to what you need. I know the #19 works very well with the centrifugal blowers, and I imagine it would work very well with a KB as well. I think the AFR 165 will meet your needs very well. Everyone recommends bigger heads when they aren't going on their credit card. That stuff gets really expensive quickly. I actually prefer the Trick Flow 170 head to the AFR 165, but they are both excellent heads. The 165 might work with pedastal rockers, and the valve geometry is closer to stock. Kurt i agree with its easy to tell someone to spend money, but also that's what were here for. i wish i would have gotten bigger injectors when i bought my 42s and now i'm into paying for two pairs of injectors because i didn't do it right the first time. not saying either head in doing it "wrong" though by any means. afr 165 are a great head and i'm sure would get close to his goals, if not reach it, but i can't see it getting much more than that. personally i would err on the side of larger and have the intake as the bottleneck for now. you can always port it later easily enough. but to switch out the heads for bigger and better is a lot more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revhead347 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Buying the wrong supporting mod is one thing. I think a big head is going to be too much hassle. I prefer to decide what you want to build and do it right the first time. As to say, decide on the combo you want and build it. I don't like the idea of buying one part and throwing it on with the intention of trading another part later on. It leads to more trouble than it's worth. Time is money as well. And damn, 42lb/hr injectors. I'm putting down 500rwhp on 30lb/hr injectors. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnbyu Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Dont be afraid of a larger head...My 205s and TFSR are running incredibly well on my 302..Running a smaller cam will make the heads act smaller. . Can't wait to dyno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95opal Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 like I stated earlier 165s E cam and a 1.8kb will but you into the 400s. How far do you want to take your stock block? I see no need to go with a bigger head on a blown stocker. Chances are when the time comes for more hp your new combo will be using something bigger than a 185 if you even leave it a pushrod at that point. All in all a bigger head in your case isn't justified in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
