Zach Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Well since the motor is out of my car I can address something's I didn't get to at first. So turns out my engine was set up a little on the loose side, but still in spec(would have been nice to know in the first place). So it was recommended to use a high volume oil pump. So in lue of that I know this is a drawn out debate weather the hv pump will suck the stock pan dry etc... But can a run a stock pan with a hv pump (would help me due to budget limitations) or should I just bite the bullet and get a good 7 quart pan. The car is mostly a show car occasional track and playing on the street, but won't see anything more than 6,000 rpm, thanks for y'all's input.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det_Riot Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I think you'll need the 7qt. If not for running it dry but the larger capacity will help keep the oil cooler. I've heard many negative things about running a HV oil pump on the street.... @kbscobravert @The Mk2 @MaximumRisk any helpful insight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumRisk Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Personally I dont think you need either. A standard volume/pressure oil pump is sufficient. If your budget allows for a 7qt pan then do that (cant go wrong with extra oil capacity) but do you need it? My opinion is no, you do not need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det_Riot Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Personally I dont think you need either. A standard volume/pressure oil pump is sufficient. If your budget allows for a 7qt pan then do that (cant go wrong with extra oil capacity) but do you need it? My opinion is no, you do not need it.Let's make it simple. Do you run one? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbscobravert Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I would go larger pan before a hv pump or hi psi pump. But definitely wouldn't run a hv pump with a stock pan.Ultimately you should follow the advice of the engine builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumRisk Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 @Det_Riot. I do run a 7 quart pan (I also have an oil cooler and a remote mounted oil filter, every oil change i use almost 9 quarts) and a standard volume oil pump with no problems 6800 rpm red line @Det_Riot. I do run a 7 quart pan (I also have an oil cooler and a remote mounted oil filter, every oil change i use almost 9 quarts) and a standard volume oil pump with no problems 6800 rpm red line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttocs Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Why was the pump recommended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 @Det_Riot. I do run a 7 quart pan (I also have an oil cooler and a remote mounted oil filter, every oil change i use almost 9 quarts) and a standard volume oil pump with no problems 6800 rpm red line@Det_Riot. I do run a 7 quart pan (I also have an oil cooler and a remote mounted oil filter, every oil change i use almost 9 quarts) and a standard volume oil pump with no problems 6800 rpm red line. Well my dilemma is that what we thought was the original problem is not the case, the oil pump never malfunctioned. We put it on a flow bench to test. And the oil press is around 10-12 hot verified by 2 diff guages. We have checked mains rod and cam bearings all are within spec but main and rods are on the loose side. Have checked for galley plugs missing and that's not the case. So my builder said its because of stacking clearances? That since the are more than one thing a little loose it makes it seem worse. And that the extra volume would get me around 20 psi hot idle.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castine917 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 10 hot at idle is ok though. 10 at 2000 rpm is low. Are you getting near 10 at 2000 rpm or idle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumRisk Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I am no expert engine builder but that sounds like a big drop in oil pressure on just main and rod bearing clearance. Is this motor a pushrod motor? There is a plug towards the back of the lifter valley that I have seen a few people forget, I am assuming you guys checked for it, but would you like to double check? :-D. It sits under the lower intake, around the area where the pcv valve opening is but on the block side ofcourse.also what grade oil were you using? Did you try a thicker grade to see if the pressure picked up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 10 hot at idle is ok though. 10 at 2000 rpm is low. Are you getting near 10 at 2000 rpm or idle? the car has 30-35 cruising down the highway. The issue is only at idle. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI am no expert engine builder but that sounds like a big drop in oil pressure on just main and rod bearing clearance. Is this motor a pushrod motor? There is a plug towards the back of the lifter valley that I have seen a few people forget, I am assuming you guys checked for it, but would you like to double check? :-D. It sits under the lower intake, around the area where the pcv valve opening is but on the block side ofcourse.also what grade oil were you using? Did you try a thicker grade to see if the pressure picked up? yea we checked that one when we had the intake off fixing that leak, and yeah I am no means an expert either just was trying to verify what they say before I spend 400$ on a pump pan pickup. And for what it's worth I have a new distributor gear and arp oil pump drive shaft. And I have 10-30 brad pen racing oil, my builder said a thicker oil wouldn't make a difference.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castine917 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Tighten specs with new bearings. HV pump and 7 qt. pan aren't needed with your use. Bigger pan won't hurt if you want it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Tighten specs with new bearings. HV pump and 7 qt. pan aren't needed with your use. Bigger pan won't hurt if you want it though.i know main bearings can be replace without removing crank but what about rod? I'm trying to keep cost to a min. And is the pressure I have safe for the motor, or would more be better? Could the excessive bleed of from the high bearing clearances be causing the valve train to be a little noisy?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castine917 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Oil pressure and oil flow are different. We don't have an accurate measure of flow so we calculate a pressure range that should provide adequate flow. You are in the safe range albeit at the low end. Anything you do to help alleviate one of your "stacked" causes for this will help bring those numbers up. Here is some math for you to think about that will vary based on how much you do yourself and how you value your time. How much is pan, pump, and labor? How much help will it be? How much for bearings(main, or rod, or both), and labor? How much will it help? Do you trust your builder and his reputation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Oil pressure and oil flow are different. We don't have an accurate measure of flow so we calculate a pressure range that should provide adequate flow. You are in the safe range albeit at the low end. Anything you do to help alleviate one of your "stacked" causes for this will help bring those numbers up. Here is some math for you to think about that will vary based on how much you do yourself and how you value your time. How much is pan, pump, and labor? How much help will it be? How much for bearings(main, or rod, or both), and labor? How much will it help? Do you trust your builder and his reputation? yes I trust the builder he built the 383 in the gfs dads camaro and it is flawless. Looking at 400$ pump pickup pan, 250$ labor. Main bearings 40$ rods 40-50~$ labor 325. So there kinda close but idk, I guess if I did do the pan pump and it didn't work I would gain a good pan and then try the bearings. Then I would be out the labor and a 40$ pump. But up a 7 quart pan.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumRisk Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 If I were you I would tighten those clearances. Go after the problem, especially since both options would cost you about the same (but only one is a sure solution). I mean, the motor is already out. If you do the pan and pump instead and it does not work then you have to pull the motor out again to do the bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 If I were you I would tighten those clearances. Go after the problem, especially since both options would cost you about the same (but only one is a sure solution). I mean, the motor is already out. If you do the pan and pump instead and it does not work then you have to pull the motor out again to do the bearings. yes that is sounding like the smarter thing to do, but knowing my luck that wouldn't fix the problem then I'd be like wtf lol. But I believe that will be my plan of action.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmage Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 some good info in here! Hope you get it figured out @Zach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
